One other thing.. The crank will not make a full revolution.. it goe about 270 degrees before stopping and im not forcing it.

Mike,

yes plugs are out and it moves very easily until the hard stop. I dont want to trash anything.

Wow, so it would appear that "learning Lesson" will cost about 175.00 in specialized tools. hmmm but I dont screw that up again in the future.

Something your saying or doing isn't right. The distributor is driven off the crank. The relationship between Z1 and the rotor cannot change, unless the distributor was removed and not put back in correctly (or something broke which is very unlikely). But don't forget that Z1 will point to #1 plug on one revolution, and #4 on the next revolution.


Did you try to rotate the motor backwards?

Tools are a good thing and you'll be happy you got them.

Did you check out the stomski tool? BTW: SIR tools basically suck as far as quality goes.

Im sure i am doing/saying something wrong. I did try rotating the engine backwards and it stops the same way as going forward, with a hard stop and it will not go a full revolution.

So right now if the engine is at z1..picture below, the rotor does not point at the mark and the rocker on one is tight. Also the dist itself is almost at the end of the adjust ment. pic below also.


crank at z1
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314563833.jpg

position of dist. it was here when I bought the car..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314563890.jpg

location of the rotor


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314563921.jpg

so its time to figure out what is really going on here. ordered the z block and dial indicator and another gasket kit since I destroyed the old one taking it off. I will be getting the cam tool as well and then I can make sure its absolutely correct.

With the Z block and a dial indicator, you can check your cam timing in just a few minutes. This will tell you if the cam moved- which it can very easily if the chain is not on the spocket.

Remember that Z1 comes up twice with piston #1 at TDC. Once when the valves are loose (the real TDC), and once when they are not (#4 at TDC with loose valves).

Try and avoid moving the engine backwards. It can be done a little, but I don't recommend going all the way around backward.

The rotor in the above picture looks like it is pointing at #4..........not #1.

Thanks.. you are correct, its pointing at 4.

hello everyone.. I was just doing a little more research while waiting on tools. so this is what I have found out so far...I made a newbie mistake and had the engine on 4 instead of 1 when I replaced the tensioners. At z1 right now the engine is on 4. the rotor is pointed away from the fan and the intake and exhaust rockers are loose. firing order s/b 1-6-2-4-3-5. When i rotate the engine as far as it will go clockwise from Z1 it stops around the 200 degree mark. its between the 2 tick marks. I have attached a pic. So that leads me to believe that its slightly past 3 but not quite to 5 for TDC. correct?? If I look down in the intake ports I can see that 1 is open a little bit and 6 is open alot and all the rest are closed. Based on what I saw in the timing cycle chart that would be 3 at TDC with the little overlap not PAST 3. I hope this is making sense.

Pics with marks in red.. z1 is behind the wrench and I have rotated it clockwise.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314650073.jpg

here is a picture of the rotor when it stops. I have circled the only DISTINCT line i can find on the housing in blue.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314650344.jpg

Looking at your pictures on page 18, It appears your cams are out of sync. The ends of them should both be vertical when the pully is at TDC. Yours look about 10 degrees off (especially the left one).

-Andy

911lvr - remember that each cylinder comes up every 120 degrees - so :

#1 = 0 deg
#6 = 120 deg
#2 = 240 deg
#4 = 360 deg
#3 = 480 deg
#5 = 600 deg
back around to #1 at 720 deg or 0 deg or TDC (twice around to get back here).

So if your engine stops at 200 deg - then #6 is just past its TDC and you are coming up on #2.

To find which cylinder is hitting, start by backing of exhaust valves on #6. You're going to need to do a valve adjustment anyway - I'd be curious enough to start loosening valves to see which is causing problems - it could be more that one if your cam timing slipped. No worries, its easy to get right again.

I think I might have been confusing. Im starting on 4 instead of 1 so even though its at z1 it stops 200 degrees from 4 so technically 560 degrees. so basically at this point I have a 200 degree rotation from my starting point before it stops. does that help?

well I got a couple of important tools today. The cam nut tool from Stomski Racing is very nice!!
im still waiting on the Dial Indicator to show up. in the mean time I have a question, should the cams always be in relationship to each other now matter where they are in the cycle. for instance at tdc 4 they should be straight up and down, so when you rotate the crank and one side is level and horizontal the other side should be the same??

nice new tools..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314893320.jpg

I think the PO needs a nickname. Lameo boy, cheap owner, Mechanical Misfit. Im not sure what ill be calling him yet. Well that I can actually type here. I call him plenty of good names so far. but they are not ok to write here.

The reason I bring this up now, is i was getting ready to go back and work on the cam timing and had pretty much decided to just do it once and do it right. I was going to remove a couple of the offending rockers so I could get the crank all the way around and start on TDC1. The first thing I noticed was that there is red silcone on every single one of the rocker shaft bolts. Clearly that was another oil leak fix and "doing it right". So i scrape the goop off and sure enough the is oil in there that must have been leaking. fine, I can deal with that and just do it correctly. I go to take out the rocker shaft bolt and the PO has messed up the bolts. I can get the correct size allen wrench in there and all it does is slip since he has messed up the inside. So I think maybe I can just deal with the other side and get it loose enough. Lucky me! he has messed up both sides..In case you cant tell im slightly sarcastic. I swear I have honestly learned my lesson on how to buy a 911.. I really dont need anymore incentive showing me how dumb I was with this particular emotional purchase. Honestly!! I promise not to do it again if something could just go easy for a bit. Is there a certain sacrifice I can make to the 911 powers that be????

messed up bolt..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1314911575.jpg

OTOH, YOU ARE PERFORMING A PUBLIC SERVICE by fixing this fine sports car.

well I think the time has finally come. I think i will be having to take off the cam followers and remove the heads. I cannot get this engine to make a full revolution. At this point, I have backed off the all the valves and I have removed the rockers that still showed movement at the point the engine stops. So its stopping and NONE of the valves are moving when it stops. The only logical explanation is that I dropped a nut or washer some how. No matter what I do, the engine will stop in the same spot every time. Im totally out of ideas here and short of dismantling it I really dont know what to do. im thinking about crushing it with my suburban and going and buying the 993 or cayman the porsche dealer has and keeps calling me about.

Remove spark plugs turn engine over and shake out the nut.

tied it no luck..Time to get creative. I didnt hear any rattling. so lets say for argument sake there is not nut in the engine. What else could cause it to stop? At the point of stopping no valves have any pressure on them. they are all loose or removed. I didnt hear any nuts or bolts. and it consistently stops at the same place. Now this engine used to turn over no problem and the only thing I have done was change the tensioners and removed the valve covers. What else would interfer enough to make it stop? I have a boroscope available but I cant get it down the spark plug hole. so what now? any suggestions?

I know it's got to be frustrating but - keep up the good work! As has been mentioned you're doing a service by keeping one more on the road.