Bye-bye 245 / 45 / 16... Hello noob alignment

[Discseven]

245 / 45 / 16 nonsense is done. I know... they're still available IF you want to pay a small ransom. Screw that. For amusement, am going to run the most economical alternative (I can find) for 8" front, 9" rear Fuchs... we'll see how economy performs over time. And... because I can't get a "professional" alignment so tires wear evenly, will dive into alignment having never done it before. Am posting to get input on how to make alignment adjustments. First, some background for you...

Tires

Shopped online... TireRack, TireThis, TireThat.... problem is once shipping, balance and install is added... online's no longer an economical road (as I priced it.) Alternative size am going with is 205 / 55 and 245 / 55. Fronts = $62 each. Rear = $82. Installed total = $371. ZR rated (149+ mph.) Some have put 225 / 45 on rear---now I'm wishing I had the guys load that up to take a look.






Installed

If you're highly sensitive to 911 dimensional relations, DON'T DO THIS --- you won't like it. Fronts are close to 1/2" larger diameter. Rears, 3/4" larger. So my lower... has just been raised 1/4" F... 3/8" R. Remember, tires are only a test. Real mission on hand is DIY alignment. Am covering tires as I imagine others may be thinking over 245 / 45 alternatives. (Good to bring your own stubby tire valves to shop or you can end up with way-too-longs.)

Front = 8 x 16 Rear = 9 x 16


Inside tire wear = standard option that came with this car. Fronts have always worn out leaving good rubber on the outsides. Sometimes both front and back have done same. Regarding front, I've been told "toe is set right but camber will simply not go any more positive." (If that's the case... how bout compensating with toe?) Below is front driver's side tire. And alignment was done supposedly by professionals with the latest high tech equip.




Rears did OK this time around. Still... they're wearing on inside... and I'm guilty of too high pressure. Am dumping rears early only because size change is front-to-rear related.




Alignment

Toe, camber, caster... I understand principles. But am total noob where making adjustments is concerned. Thought "string theory" was interesting approach but from what I've heard, it's a lengthy set up. So... to check track, got $19 laser level from Harbor F. For toe, am going with "under C" method I picked up from Peter Bull in Sweden. TY Pete. His photos...




A look at my strut tops.




As I know it, front-end toe and camber is relatively simple. Rear end... that's complete mystery to me. Not sure I really care about caster---steers fine. Am looking forward to front & rear adjustment input from you guys before putting a wrench to this. TY

[GH85Carrera]

I am all for do-it-yourself and I know some folks get decent results with home alignment.

My question is why can't you get a pro to align the car with an alignment rack and get good tire wear? There must be someone in Miami that can do it.

When I did my suspension rubber bushing replacement and tie-rods and shocks and so on I did a home alignment and got it pretty close. I drove it with the old tires for a few hundred miles and then had the pro do it with the proper tools, AKA an computer and laser on the alignment rack. My alignment was pretty darn close.

Good Luck.

[McLovin]

How wide are your rear wheels? (They look like 16x8, but the pics are too small to be sure)

If you're going cheap, why not 225/50 16? That's what the factory used, it is the exact right height, looks right, etc.

[wwest]

2 points to make...

1. Alignment to factory specification makes the steering to sensitive, constant attention required to stay centered in the lane. Tried several alignments, shops, before being advised that factory alignment was more for track use, constant attention is expected. Was advised that if I wished to drive relaxed the shop would deviate from the factory specs.

Can put you in touch with my shop and maybe they will be willing to share their trade secrets.

2.,,,NOISE!


I always peruse Tire Racks customer reviews in an attempt to find the quietest tires that also fit the other desirable parameters. Sometimes successful, sometimes not.

Most times I have found that "quiet" tires only remain so for 8-10,000 miles.

Had one tire manufacturer that acknowledged that my 8,000 mile tire set was so loud that they not only refunded my cost, they contributed an equal amount to my favorite charity, Seattle Children's Hospital.

Tires are still in storage if anyone is interested.

[Elombard]

Do you have the ray scrugs alignment pamphlet? it will walk you through the rear. Its time consuming but doable. I think some one has posted a scan of it on pelican if you search.

[darrin]

keep in mind that your larger diameter rear wheels will cause your car's gearing to become taller, which could affect its perceived performance.

My mechanic in Denver (Jim at Eisenbud's) "solved" the problem I've had with inside front tire wear by slightly bending the front struts (apparently my front suspension was at adjustment limits too). Apparently a common solution for them and I've seen MUCH more even front tire wear since then with no perceived effect on stability/steering effort/etc.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I am all for do-it-yourself and I know some folks get decent results with home alignment.

My question is why can't you get a pro to align the car with an alignment rack and get good tire wear? There must be someone in Miami that can do it.

When I did my suspension rubber bushing replacement and tie-rods and shocks and so on I did a home alignment and got it pretty close. I drove it with the old tires for a few hundred miles and then had the pro do it with the proper tools, AKA an computer and laser on the alignment rack. My alignment was pretty darn close.

Good Luck.

Would really like to know a place where I can go and pay for an alignment that results in even tire wear. But I've been down that road and haven't found anyone. Now happens to be a time when I can invest myself in the experience of understanding what's going on... and with guys like you who have done it before, am hoping you'll share tips & tricks to help me along in this challenge.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by McLovin

How wide are your rear wheels? (They look like 16x8, but the pics are too small to be sure)

If you're going cheap, why not 225/50 16? That's what the factory used, it is the exact right height, looks right, etc.

Front = 8 x 16. Rear 9 x 16. Yeah... was told about 225, and should have had guys mount one on the car. Just thought 225 was too narrow. Seems like just shy of an inch narrower. What am I missing here?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by darrin

keep in mind that your larger diameter rear wheels will cause your car's gearing to become taller, which could affect its perceived performance.

....

It's a real degradation

here's a comparison of 245/45 vs 255/5o x16 on a US 3.2 Carera


I hope the op made a typo and is using 255/50 not 255/55, which would be worse yet

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by wwest

2 points to make...

1. Alignment to factory specification makes the steering to sensitive, constant attention required to stay centered in the lane. Tried several alignments, shops, before being advised that factory alignment was more for track use, constant attention is expected. Was advised that if I wished to drive relaxed the shop would deviate from the factory specs.

Can put you in touch with my shop and maybe they will be willing to share their trade secrets.

2.,,,NOISE!


I always peruse Tire Racks customer reviews in an attempt to find the quietest tires that also fit the other desirable parameters. Sometimes successful, sometimes not.

Most times I have found that "quiet" tires only remain so for 8-10,000 miles.

Had one tire manufacturer that acknowledged that my 8,000 mile tire set was so loud that they not only refunded my cost, they contributed an equal amount to my favorite charity, Seattle Children's Hospital.

Tires are still in storage if anyone is interested.

Would like to call them. Pls PM me their number and who I should speak with. TY Will. LOL on quiet. That is a concern after I get the car set up to make them last!

What size are they? I might be interested.

Very nice on charity

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Elombard

Do you have the ray scrugs alignment pamphlet? it will walk you through the rear. Its time consuming but doable. I think some one has posted a scan of it on pelican if you search.

I have email for Scruggs... have not contacted him yet for it. Will look for scan. TY Erik

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by darrin

keep in mind that your larger diameter rear wheels will cause your car's gearing to become taller, which could affect its perceived performance.

My mechanic in Denver (Jim at Eisenbud's) "solved" the problem I've had with inside front tire wear by slightly bending the front struts (apparently my front suspension was at adjustment limits too). Apparently a common solution for them and I've seen MUCH more even front tire wear since then with no perceived effect on stability/steering effort/etc.

Interesting on gearing getting taller. Never considered that. TY. Do you know if your struts were bent to go more positive camber Darrin?

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

It's a real degradation

here's a comparison of 245/45 vs 255/5o x16 on a US 3.2 Carera


I hope the op made a typo and is using 255/50 not 255/55, which would be worse yet

TY for diagram. Rear is 245 / 55. Without thinking about effect of increased diameter, surly I've self adjusted way I drive to compensate to a degree. Will now apply a more studied sense to performance and comment later on this.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by Discseven

Interesting on gearing getting taller. Never considered that. TY. Do you know if your struts were bent to go more positive camber Darrin?

I would presume that was the case --

[bpu699]

Setting caster and camber is pretty easy. I Went and bought a digital level at home depot, 80$ or so. Setting camber was done by simply placing it against the rim, and adjusting. Easy as can be.

Castor was done by setting it against the front of the strut, with the wheel removed. Pretty easy also.

Toe, not so easy...

Bo

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by darrin

keep in mind that your larger diameter rear wheels will cause your car's gearing to become taller, which could affect its perceived performance.

My mechanic in Denver (Jim at Eisenbud's) "solved" the problem I've had with inside front tire wear by slightly bending the front struts (apparently my front suspension was at adjustment limits too). Apparently a common solution for them and I've seen MUCH more even front tire wear since then with no perceived effect on stability/steering effort/etc.

More info please. Do you mean he bent the spindle upwards? That would make sense, though I am dying to know how that was done. Many folks could benefit from a method to tweak the spindle a half degree or so. But how? Short of hitting a pothole at 60mph ... .

Bo

[armand80sc]

How have they attempted to adjusted the camber in the past when there is still the tar stuff on the strut top mounts? I suspect the store didnt even try, just like in my case.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by bpu699

More info please. Do you mean he bent the spindle upwards? That would make sense, though I am dying to know how that was done. Many folks could benefit from a method to tweak the spindle a half degree or so. But how? Short of hitting a pothole at 60mph ... .

Bo

Unfortunately, I didn't personally witness what they did -- you might want to try calling them -- Eisenbuds-Fine Service of Porsche, Mercedes, Audi and VW 303.825.0322

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Setting caster and camber is pretty easy. I ENT and bought a digital level at home depot, 80$ or so. Setting camber was done by simply placing it against the rim, and adjusting. Easy as can be.

Castor was done by setting it against the front of the strut, with the wheel removed. Pretty easy also.

Toe, not so easy...

Bo

HA! And I thought toe was the easiest to adjust Bo. This is going to be interesting expidition.

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by Discseven

Am in process of cleaning tar off passenger's strut. But driver's... you can see it has been moved. Since alignment place has not moved tops out to touch car, I suspect the way they are is as far as they go. But we'll have to see about that. If it is, other means to a good end will be sought. Bending the struts is already on the table.

How do you plan to bend the struts? Adjustable camber plates are available.

Bo