A/C condenser delete help for 86 Coupe

[revkev]

Hello,

Been looking through a bunch of books and scouring the internet for a solid, step by step "how to remove the a/c condenser" from the deck lid, but no success. Was hoping someone knew of a site or has documented it themselves when they did theirs. I also want to know how I can check to see if any R12 is in there. Been reading that I should leave the a/c compressor alone as that is needed for the engine cooling fan. I do want to lighten up the car, but not "addicted" to making it as lean as possible since I will not race it (more of a handling and MPG thing). I have worked on vintage Z cars and this is my first Porsche, so I want to take my tinkering slowly as these engine bays are night and day.

Thank you!

[Jack Stands]

You should be able to remove the AC compressor, mounting bracket, etc. as well since it runs on a different belt than the cooling fan. Lot's of folks have removed their AC systems as they were marginal in hot climates at best.

[gliding_serpent]

The ac compressor mounting plate often needs a muffler removal to get it off.

My cars po removed the mount, compressor, and rear condenser. Last month i removed everything else, including the lines, front fan/condensor, drying cannister, and smugglers box evaporator.

Combined with a heat backdate and engine blower delete, my engine bay is a diy access dream. Now i just need to give it a good clean...

[Discseven]

Pulling the AC parts you don't want should be relatively easy REV. Do have to be careful with pressure in system when taking apart. Put a guage on... or depress the Schrader valve on the high (red) side port. If there's a lot of pressure... you'll know it. If there's only remnant pressure, it'll sound like the last air coming out of a tire. Did not notice what state you are in but most (if not all states) require refrigerant to be collected by certified AC shops.

[revkev]

Perhaps I will remove all then, but condenser will be first. Can I take off regardless of the presence of R12? Will it be OK to just remove the condenser and not the compressor? Again any leads to a tutorial would be greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by gliding_serpent

my engine bay is a diy access dream. Now i just need to give it a good clean...

Would love to see an engine bay glamour shot : )!

Originally Posted by Discseven

Did not notice what state you are in but most (if not all states) require refrigerant to be collected by certified AC shops.

I am in San Francisco, CA. Already looked for some AC shops, bt not sure if they are certified. I heard they would buy the freon, but I assume not R12.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by revkev

Perhaps I will remove all then, but condenser will be first. Can I take off regardless of the presence of R12? Will it be OK to just remove the condenser and not the compressor? Again any leads to a tutorial would be greatly appreciated.

Would love to see an engine bay glamour shot : )!

I am in San Francisco, CA. Already looked for some AC shops, bt not sure if they are certified. I heard they would buy the freon, but I assume not R12.

REV... Rear lid condenser has two AC hoses connected to it. Those should easily disconnect --- again no pressure should be in AC system when making this disconnect. Then a few screws / nuts attaching the condenser to rear lid. I suggest if you just dive into it you'll see where the connections are.

Only a guess here... am estimating entire AC system weighs 50 lbs. Frankly, loosing the rear lid condenser is not a big deal in regards to weight. Here's look at entire system. You probably don't have rear fender condenser.

Swap 2 and 3 in profile drawing.

There's roughly 40 feet of AC hose in 911. Is held in by simple brackets plus there are connections to various AC parts such as the condensers, evaporator, drier. Nothing here is rocket science to disconnect. Entire system can be removed from car in 1 day with simple hand tools, jack, and jack stands.

If you pull these part out, I'd suggest closing off (sealing) the ports and putting everything in storage. Whomever you sell the car to might be interested in these parts.

[kuehl]

1) Locate the schrader valve (service port on the compressor). Engine, off, use a small pin (1/8" nominal diameter) and carefully press in the pin, if pressure comes out there is still refrigerant in the system. Have it professionally recovered.
2) Using 2 open end wrenches, 7/8", one to hold the hex fitting on the condenser and one to turn the hex nut on the hose attached to it, turn hose nut "lefty loosey", be careful not to scratch the engine deck lid with the wrenches. Loosen both hose connections.
3) On the RH (passg side), take a mm hex driver and remove the bolt securing the hose bracket to the deck lid, remove the hose assy. Replace the bolt.
4) Remove the hose at the compressor, try to keep both ends upright to reduce chance of residual refrigerant oil dripping down in the engine bay. Place hose in plastic bag and put on the spare parts shelf.
5) Remove the hose at the LH (driver's side) of the condenser. If you are going to leave the hose with the car cap off the end of the hose with 3/4"-16 plug, and secure the hose in the engine compartment with tie wraps.
6) Cap off the condenser ports with 3/4"-16 caps.
7) Remove phillips screws supporting the center spar support bracket which holds the center edge of the condenser; you can put the bracket back later or put in on the shelf.
8) Remove the 5mm nut and bolts that hold the LH and RH condenser brackets to the deck lid hinges; ditto on what you are going to do with the hardware, put back or store.
9) If you going to leave the compressor on the car, cap off the outlet port where deck lid condenser connected with a 3/4"-16 cap. If you are going to remove the compressor, place a rag under the remaining suction hose attached to it, take an adjustable crescent wrench loosen the nut on the hose fitting, cap off the port n the compressor with a 7/8"-14 cap. If you are going to leave the hose with the car cap off the end of the hose with 7/8"-14 plug, and secure the hose in the engine compartment with tie wraps.
10) Loosen the 13mm hex adjuster nut and bolt on the RH side of the compressor mounting plate, push the compressor to the left as far as the slots in the plate will allow. Use a 13mm hex socket and remove the bolts that secure the compressor to the plate. Remove compressor, slip off the belt, keep rag on the compressor hose ports to prevent oil from dripping down on the car and engine bay. Put the compressor on the shelf or in a box, ports up.

The deck lid condenser, varies with model, weighs about 5-6 lbs, the compressor with clutch about 15 lbs.

Keep all the parts for when its time to sell the car.

Your model uses 3 sizes of AC hose:
#10 for 'low side or suction side' at the evaporator outlet and the compressor inlet, hose ID is 1/2", thread size on fittings is 7/8"-14
#8 for 'high side gas' at the compressor outlet and the deck lid condenser outlet, hose ID is 13/32", thread size on fittings is 3/4"-16
#6 for 'high side liquid' at front condenser inlet & outlet, drier inlet and outlet, and expansion valve inlet, hose ID is 5/16", thread size on fittings is 5/8"-18

[revkev]

Disc/Kuehl, Thanks so much for the awesome post. Going to take out condenser and compressor but will leave the hoses intact for an easier return to "unmolested." According to Kuehl this will shave 20 lbs plus allow more air into the bay. Will evac this week and delete next weekend.

[kuehl]

I won't say it will allow more air into the engine bay, but if you have spal fans on the deck lid condenser and remove them, why yes! lol.

[revkev]

Haha. Sorry. Didnt mean to put words your mouth. Regarding the weight you were the source, regarding the air that was my assumption. Just common sense says that the condenser is obstruction to air flow since it is blocking the vent. Right? Printing your instructions up and going to pick up sone caps. Thx for the great post.

[Discseven]

CG... am guessing stock AC system weighing in at around 50 lbs including every nut, bolt and bracket. How off am I?

[kuehl]

Karl,

You are pretty close.

I'm gonna toss a 'rule of thumb' in terms of mass or weight because there are a few variations of systems. You have early years with single deck lid condensers or deck lid and front condensers, VPC or Behr kneed pad panels and evaporator boxes, mini Yorks and full size York compressors. You have later years with Behr evaporators boxes and integrated dash vents and Denso compressors. You have early non barrier hose with braided covers and later non barrier hose without braided cover; an so forth; Griffiths' Kuehl barrier hose sets are lighter than stock OEM hose sets.

So, I'd suggest 75 lbs give or take for an 911SC or Carrera/912/930 average system mass.

And... "Removing your engine deck lid condenser and compressor will reduce the vehicle weight by 20 lbs avg, equivalent to 3.25 lbs of petrol depending upon the grade or density, same weight savings as compared to avoiding Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners."
Is rear AC condenser needed on 86 Carrera?

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by kuehl

Karl,

You are pretty close.

I'm gonna toss a 'rule of thumb' in terms of mass or weight because there are a few variations of systems. You have early years with single deck lid condensers or deck lid and front condensers, VPC or Behr kneed pad panels and evaporator boxes, mini Yorks and full size York compressors. You have later years with Behr evaporators boxes and integrated dash vents and Denso compressors. You have early non barrier hose with braided covers and later non barrier hose without braided cover; an so forth; Griffiths' Kuehl barrier hose sets are lighter than stock OEM hose sets.

So, I'd suggest 75 lbs give or take for an 911SC or Carrera/912/930 average system mass.

And... "Removing your engine deck lid condenser and compressor will reduce the vehicle weight by 20 lbs avg, equivalent to 3.25 lbs of petrol depending upon the grade or density, same weight savings as compared to avoiding Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners."
Is rear AC condenser needed on 86 Carrera?

TY on weight and dietary note CG.

I recall comparing my hose to Kuehl barrier hose. Kuehl was indeed lighter weight than my stock.

Another Q: Is it possible to change the rubber engine seal with engine in? (On oil tank side, this seal tends to deform. Once deformed, air bypasses rear lid condenser.)

[DRACO A5OG]

you might need to do a partial engine drop to gain full access.

[kuehl]

The seal is a 2 piece rubber flap, one flap goes on the top of the engine tin, the other flap below. First try a hair drier to warm up the rubber, if that does not work try something warmer (but not to warm, lol). Let me know how you make out.

And here is some fresh meat
How do you replace the seal between the body and engine tin?

[Discseven]

REV... Have taken your thread to another dimension. My apology. Will stop after this...

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

you might need to do a partial engine drop to gain full access.

TY for input Jim. (Guys in CG's thread took some time to get to this point but they support the engine-out-of-way plan.)

Originally Posted by kuehl

The seal is a 2 piece rubber flap, one flap goes on the top of the engine tin, the other flap below. First try a hair drier to warm up the rubber, if that does not work try something warmer (but not to warm, lol). Let me know how you make out.

And here is some fresh meat
How do you replace the seal between the body and engine tin?

Enlightening CG. Very appropriate link. TY.

Now... I'll shut up.

[revkev]

SUCCESS! Took it to an Auto AC repair place and they evac'd my R12 for free but he didn't pull much out.

Everything went smoothly but made one minor mistake. I thought there were 3 hoses but the 3rd was a gas line (Rear RH side). A couple of tablespoons of gas came out but then quickly re-secured it. Hope I didn't mess anything up with that pressure wise. I left all the hoses in and sealed them up in case I ever sell and the future owner wants AC but in SF, it's not needed.

The deck lid (single shock on RHS w/ tail) now stays up and in my mind, feel like I gained 5 HP : ) due to the weightless. Looks cleaner too in there too and will be easy to reverse.

Thanks for everyone's notes!!! I did reference them a few times.

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by revkev

The deck lid (single shock on RHS w/ tail) now stays up and in my mind, feel like I gained 5 HP : ) due to the weightless. Looks cleaner too in there too and will be easy to reverse.

There should be 2 deck lid shocks if there is a (tea tray) tail, so it would seem the second one was missing on your car. No longer a problem though.