June?

[nostatic]

Hunter S. Thompson On Finding Your Purpose | Your Friend's House

[onewhippedpuppy]

Jeff, I would argue that location has NOTHING to do with your happiness (or lack thereof). It's just a superficial factor that's easy to blame, and keeping you from addressing the true root cause. I remember your posts when you left CA about how it was essentially the worst place ever, that you would NEVER return, and that you were moving on to somewhere exponentially better. Fast forward a few years and suddenly living in the NE is the cause of your unhappiness, and maybe you'd like to move back to CA. I strongly suspect that a change of scenery will at best provide you with a temporary improvement in mindset, and then it's back into the same rut.

I live in a fairly mediocre place, but it's easy to make a living and support a family. My wife and I plan to retire elsewhere someday. Yet, I'm happy as hell. Ultimately my happiness has very little to do with where I live, and I would suggest that you need to assess what really will make you happy in life. Location is a scapegoat, what is lacking in your life and how can you address this shortcoming? Btw, money is the last thing that you need to consider in this equation, it's another black hole that will in no way fill this void in your life.

[nostatic]

Alcoholics Anonymous refer to it as a "geographical."

[look 171]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Jeff, I would argue that location has NOTHING to do with your happiness (or lack thereof). It's just a superficial factor that's easy to blame, and keeping you from addressing the true root cause. I remember your posts when you left CA about how it was essentially the worst place ever, that you would NEVER return, and that you were moving on to somewhere exponentially better. Fast forward a few years and suddenly living in the NE is the cause of your unhappiness, and maybe you'd like to move back to CA. I strongly suspect that a change of scenery will at best provide you with a temporary improvement in mindset, and then it's back into the same rut.

I live in a fairly mediocre place, but it's easy to make a living and support a family. My wife and I plan to retire elsewhere someday. Yet, I'm happy as hell. Ultimately my happiness has very little to do with where I live, and I would suggest that you need to assess what really will make you happy in life. Location is a scapegoat, what is lacking in your life and how can you address this shortcoming? Btw, money is the last thing that you need to consider in this equation, it's another black hole that will in no way fill this void in your life.

Matt, I know money doesn't always bring happiness, but in Jeff's situation, being out of work with bills beating down his doors, having a well paying job will take a huge load off. Without a well paying job or money, shouldering that weight can be a real btich in the long run especially if you are trying dig yourself out of a ditch. I have been there in my younger years but thankfully my immediate family is here in LA with endless support, just not financially. Lost my long time girlfriend, I had to let her go and couldn't drag her deeper in my mess no longer. Lost my shop and all my equipments, with no job for a couple of years and a few hundred bucks in my bank. The downturn of the economy kick my teeth in the mid 90s.

[look 171]

To me, the hardest thing is to leave my folks knowing they need my help. I can't bring myself to do that. I will turn myself inside out to make sure my folks are well taken care of. I was brought up that way, on the other hand, one must leave to find happiness and make something of yourself. Time, how much time do you have left and how many more good years? This would be the toughest choice if you ask me. I am sorry that I can't offer any help with that one.

Jeff

[motion]

I wouldn't exactly say that I've been lucky in life. I've had my share of hard times and life disappointments. Maybe I just don't share them here. I have probably inherited a bit of the unhappy/angry gene from my dad's side of the family. Its been something that I've had to deal with all my life. My way of combating it is to tell myself over and over, every day, day after day, how great life is and to remind myself of all the positive things in this beautiful world. I don't pretend the negative things don't exist... I just glaze over them and move on. I lived in South OC for 30 years and became an expert at just ignoring what was going on around me, and choosing to focus on the positive aspects, of which there are many.

I recently visited OZ and met with some Aussie friends who lived in Laguna Niguel (neighbors of mine) 10 years ago. They miss OC terribly. We dug into it, and while Aussies make more money than Americans, the affordability index is worse. They work harder for less in Australia. As Dean mentioned, restaurant food and other entertainment is off-the-charts expensive. Australia and New Zealand are the highest priced places I've ever visited (with the exception of Singapore).

Anyway, the weather or how much your job will pay isn't really your issue, POP. You need to look a bit deeper inside. I think you're married... is your wife a supportive life partner?

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by motion

My way of combating it is to tell myself over and over, every day, day after day, how great life is and to remind myself of all the positive things in this beautiful world. I don't pretend the negative things don't exist... I just glaze over them and move on. I lived in South OC for 30 years and became an expert at just ignoring what was going on around me, and choosing to focus on the positive aspects, of which there are many.

^^^this. Also, limit your time being around negative people. It's easy to get dragged down by them.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

A bit more for consideration:

I'm 44 so I like to think I've got a few more good years ahead of me. Part of what's bugging me is I see what's happened to my parents. They slogged out their whole lives here - difficult lives dealing with constant BS, crummy winters, all of it. My dad in particular spent the last 10-15 years killing myself (I'm sorry to say that's more literal than figurative) fixing up their house and making it what he wanted. It was a constant struggle because every single winter it would destroy part of the work and set him back. Then he'd spend 4-5 months rebuilding and making some progress forward, then winter would set in and destroy part of it again... It was a little bit comical and a little bit sad to watch both from afar (when I lived elsewhere) and nearby. It's the only thing that seemed to give him purpose though. He was in his 60s (now in his 70s) and too old to really consider a career change, etc. He was trapped. Like I said he recently had a stroke which has left him partially paralyzed and a heart attack which might've taken his life if he'd not been lucky. I see myself hurtling down the same sort of road - constantly playing Mr. Fix-it Man because everything gets so beat to hell here all the time - cars, houses, property, you-name-it.

It's also difficult to stay healthy here. I'm an outdoorsy kind of person. I love being able to get outdoors when I'm not at work and enjoy life (case in point I just came from a morning surf session and am now on the train to work - strictly because it's finally warm enough to do such things - the summer / summer-ish months here are perfectly fine. I can run, bike, hike, surf, swim, whatever. I can work on the cars and on the yard, which I actually kind of enjoy. I can build a campfire in the backyard and cook smores (did that the other night). But the other half of the year you're literally getting up in the dark, trudging through waist-deep snow to get to work, going home in the dark and going to bed - all the while trying to not freeze to death. It's a difficult and not-so-fun way to live. I've always been in good health and in the last 4-5 years I've let myself slip (trying to do something about that now that I can get out and do stuff). I don't want to end up another "Pillsbury dough boy" looking middle-aged, out-of-shape grump like so many people here turn into. That's not me. I'm not sure I want to put all that extra work into eking out an existence just to potentially end up the same way my dad has - beaten down, broken, burned-out, used up and in the same place he was when he started it all. It's a lot of "running to stand still" that happens by default here and it kinda scares me.

I know there's good and bad to everywhere and I don't want to say "the grass is greener". Truthfully there's a lot of good things here - for half the year. I've got a decent life, there's stuff to enjoy, I've got space (not stuck in an urban hell like I was in LA / Long Beach), schools are good, etc. It's not a bad deal - but only half the time. I can't stress enough that from November to about April, the entire area shuts down and there's really NOTHING to do. It's dark all the time, it's depressing, the SADS kicks in and... well... it's not pretty.

I guess the biggest thing that bugs me about it is that I feel like I'm stuck here by circumstance, not by choice. I left here twice in my life already (once to go to college in FL and the second time to go to graduate school in Chicago, then ultimately to the west coast). Both times I really didn't plan on coming back but I sort of got pushed into it - first for a job / internship and a relationship and the second time because it was literally the only game in town job-wise. If I hadn't taken the job here, I shudder to think what might've happened. 2009 was not a good year and a few more months being out of work might very well have seen me homeless - no joke. It got very scary. So there it is - I think it's okay here and I can deal with it, but only some of the year - and I never really asked to be here and I have real concerns about ending up throwing my life away on a lifestyle that's unnecessarily harder than it needs to be.

I'm not in a hurry per se but I do feel a certain amount of anxiety wanting to do something before another winter comes. If I'm going to do something this year, I need to make my plan, sell my house and make it happen in the next 3-4 months. Or I can give it a year or two (but then I'm committing to suffering through another winter or two, and I don't know if I've got it in me...)

Final thought (for now) - I don't really want to go back to CA necessarily. There are parts of it I'd consider but generally speaking I'm kinda' "been there, done that". I liked the lifestyle a lot better than here but there were a lot of things I didn't like about living there too (and I've beaten those to death so no need to rehash). I'm trying to keep open-minded about it and say "CA is a big place, if I wanted to I could find something somewhere there I'd be good with" which is the only reason I brought up places like SLO, San Fran, San Diego, etc. I'd really love to get to Hawaii but it's a tricky play to get work there. I'm also looking at places like AZ, TX, FL, GA, SC, NC and VA / DC. The problem with some of them (TX, VA, the Carolinas, AZ, GA, FL) is the salaries are pretty poor compared to say, HI, CA, DC, etc. I don't mind if it's expensive to live somewhere (although I prefer if it's not!) if it's worth it. People always were shocked about how expensive it was to live in CA when I told them what it cost. I'd shrug and just say "that's what it costs - if you want to live here that's just what it costs", which is true. And frankly a lot of people live in those "expensive" places just fine making a lot less than I do or would, so it comes down to finding the right area / neighborhood a lot of times. There's also the expat option but as with Hawaii, it's a hell of a lot of work (but maybe worth it?) Australia, NZ, parts of Asia, Italy, southern France... There are lots of options. I have pretty good credentials and could probably land something either directly practicing architecture or as a construction PM (which is what I do now). I've got options, which is nice. I just need to be careful about what I choose to do because at this point in my career a move may well define my "peak years" path and what I specialize in, etc.

The relationship situation is complicated and I won't get into the details because it doesn't really matter. Suffice to say this is my decision and mine alone. Whatever happens or doesn't happen as a result is pretty much irrelevant. I've been told it's my decision, so I'll decide on the basis of that and let other people react to it however they choose to (I've been told what they'd do supposedly, but talk is cheap and I won't believe it until I see it). Again, solely my call what I want to do.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by look 171

Matt, I know money doesn't always bring happiness, but in Jeff's situation, being out of work with bills beating down his doors, having a well paying job will take a huge load off. Without a well paying job or money, shouldering that weight can be a real btich in the long run especially if you are trying dig yourself out of a ditch. I have been there in my younger years but thankfully my immediate family is here in LA with endless support, just not financially. Lost my long time girlfriend, I had to let her go and couldn't drag her deeper in my mess no longer. Lost my shop and all my equipments, with no job for a couple of years and a few hundred bucks in my bank. The downturn of the economy kick my teeth in the mid 90s.

Trust me, I know how both you and Jeff felt. I was laid off in April of last year and didn't find a new job until December. That's a gut check moment when you are trying to support a wife and three kids. But I believe Jeff is at the moment gainfully employed.

My only point was to not make a move just for money. Having plenty of money removes a huge stress, but also does not alone create happiness just as having more stuff doesn't create happiness.

Jeff, how closely have you looked at salaries in the areas you mentioned? I know in my searching last year (aerospace industry) I found the salary in TX and AZ to be very close to CA salaries but with significantly lower cost of living. PHX is more expensive than TX, DFW is about as cheap as life gets.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I guess the biggest thing that bugs me about it is that I feel like I'm stuck here by circumstance, not by choice. I left here twice in my life already (once to go to college in FL and the second time to go to graduate school in Chicago, then ultimately to the west coast). Both times I really didn't plan on coming back but I sort of got pushed into it - first for a job / internship and a relationship and the second time because it was literally the only game in town job-wise.

It is always by choice. If you're getting pushed into it, then push back. I find it hard to believe that there was only one job in the entire country that you could do and it was back east. You're being held prisoner by your perception.

Have you done therapy? I did a number of years of it and it helped a lot (some might say I need more...). The world is what the world is. We make it something else by the way we view it and the judgements we place on things internal and external.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I'm also looking at places like AZ, TX, FL, GA, SC, NC and VA / DC.

Now that's just crazy talk!

[Jim Richards]

From the Hunter S. Thompson link, above:

"...a man must choose a path which will let his ABILITIES function at maximum efficiency toward the gratification of his DESIRES."

Figure out your DESIRES, P-O-P. Or, at least what you don't desire.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I actually have a relative in VA and I love it down there. Milder climate, nice people, southern vibe. I only consider DC because the money's a lot better (and I've got a fair amount of government / civic project experience at this point so I might be able to bridge that well).

I don't really want to back up over history but to Todd's point (and I really do value his input) there were really NO, ZERO, ZIP, NADA jobs in 2009 in this field. I sent out over 300 resumes all over the country, got a reply from a couple of dozen (not counting automated "we've received your application and will keep it on file" e-mails), and got (supposedly) bona fide interviews at six. I say "supposedly" because back then you never really knew if there was REALLY a position or whether you were just being shined on - I got the sense a few times that they're just trying to legitimize some decision about hiring an already pre-selected candidate or that they really didn't intend to hire at all, just collecting information). I got one offer - the one at the company where I am now (and I'm told HR received something like 160 applications for THAT position). It was an insane time in this industry (probably all industries but construction got hit especially hard). I thought about career changes, etc. too. Perhaps the best advice I got was to stay in the field because when things turn around you'll be in demand because a lot of others will leave the industry. That's proven true and is bearing fruit. We see escalation across the industry, higher bids, etc. largely because construction is back to about 80% of its peak in the mid-2000s but is trying to do all that work with a workforce less than half the size it was then.

Not to split hairs but fine - I'll admit that technically I had a "choice". I could have taken the position or I suppose I could have turned it down and likely been living in a box under the 405 a few months later. Hell, even the fast food joints weren't hiring back then (I looked at a few!) It was a seriously scary time. It was even scarier because there was no optimism about a turnaround at all. Nobody knew when or if it was going to end. I can't be the only one that remembers how it was! It wasn't until into 2011-12 when we started hearing about things being a little better and there being glimmers of optimism. No way I could've lasted that long financially. Not even close. The timing couldn't have been worse too - I was let go within weeks of the birth of my son. Note that I'm sharing a lot of previously-undisclosed personal info here - I think this is only the second time I've even mentioned him on the Internet at all. As I said before, I'm a fairly private person and I don't think much good ever comes from posting information about peoples' families - especially children - on the Internet. That was additional pressure / "gun to my head" on me. I really felt that I didn't have another option. I had to take the job for his sake too. A lot of things change when you've got someone depending on you who's otherwise helpless to fend for themself. Actually I brought FMLA leave request to my boss a few days before being let go and he handed it back to me saying "we'll have to talk about this later". Probably flatly illegal but I've never pursued it. Another kick in the ass I dealt with. Was I let go because he didn't want to pay for me to have FMLA time? I'll never know. I'm happy to say he's doing well, kicking butt and is top of his (kindergarten) class, so I guess it was the right choice - for then.

The other thing people have to consider is that it's really not worth it to take a McJob for any reason other than personal pride ("Look at me! I'm so great because I'm working instead of collecting unemployment, rah-rah"). If you do, that money comes right off the top of your unemployment insurance benefits anyway, so basically you end up working for money you've earned already anyway (you've paid into that system) and would receive anyway AND you lose the hours out of the day doing some mindless job when you could have been using that time more productively to go after REAL jobs in your own field, build your skills, network, etc. That's what it came down to for me (aside from the fact that there really wasn't anything available anyway). I actually did a little "under the table" stuff but it wasn't nearly enough to live on (maybe 10 hours a week occasionally).

So am I resentful? I hope not. I was kinda' done with CA at that point anyway (I'd put up with too much BS and I'd had enough) - the position gave me an "out", it saved my bacon at the time and I'm grateful for that but now I'm getting to the point where I've actually got choices again and I may well want to take advantage of them.

Yea, I've spoken to (and am speaking to) a counselor about some of these things. It does help but I still think I need to do something to improve my situation and "find my happy place" if you will. You can tell me I need a lot more of that too - I probably wouldn't disagree, nor would most! Pelican is cheaper therapy though.

I DESIRE hot women, bottomless beer pitchers, my own personal fleet of GT3s, a vacation home in the Mediterranean, a private jet to get me there and about $20M in tax-sheltered cash in a Cayman Islands bank account - and SUNNY, WARM WEATHER! But I'll settle for somewhere where I can have a good job (and a chance of maybe going into practice for myself) and feel like I'm living a good life outside of work, with good future / family potential that's in a good climate. Am I really asking for too much here? Those places exist, but they're not here.

OK back to work!

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

The other thing you have to consider is that it's really not worth it to take a McJob other than for personal pride. If you do, that money comes right off the top of your unemployment insurance benefits. So basically you work for money you'd get anyway and you lose the hours out of the day that you could use more productively to go after REAL jobs in your own field, build your skills, network, etc. That's what it came down to (aside from the fact that there really wasn't anything available anyway). I actually did a little "under the table" stuff but it wasn't nearly enough to live on (maybe 10 hours a week occasionally).

That's the boat I was in when I lost my job a few years ago. I could have easily gotten a job selling guns at a local gun store that would have paid better and been a lot easier than a McJob. But it would have murdered my day as far as looking for a better job or going to interviews. I even had a decent job offer before I lost my job, but was pretty sure I could find a better one before that job's start date. And I did. I'd have been in bad shape if I had gone right to working 40+ hrs/wk just to make more than UI paid and lost all that time I instead put into looking for a better job. Right about the time Mrs. Lee was starting to think I was a bum, I had a better job and making more money than my previous one. But man, I treated that job search like a full time job.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

So am I resentful? I hope not. I was kinda' done with CA at that point anyway (I'd put up with too much BS and I'd had enough) - the position gave me an "out", it saved my bacon at the time and I'm grateful for that but now I'm getting to the point where I've actually got choices again and I may well want to take advantage of them.

I think my main point it that CA is no unique in having BS. *Every place* has BS - just different flavors. So you may have gotten fed up with the particular type of BS in CA, but with that BS comes positives so everything is a cost/benefit analysis.

My point about "choice" is that your language was such that you didn't have a choice. But you did, and your follow-up expanded on them and why you made the decision that you did. But you did make a choice to stick it out in your field instead of changing fields or considering other options (including the box under the 405). We don't always have a lot of good options, but it is rare that there is only one way to go.

Also, your time spent pursuing flying was a choice that you made, and any choice has repercussions. In retrospect one could say that the time spent there hindered your other career choices. But sounds like you loved flying, so you're back to the cost/benefit. For example right now if I hadn't raced my 911 for five years I would have a much bigger chunk of money to put towards a down payment on a house. I would have more options wrt our living situation. But instead I burned through probably $75K driving around in circles. I paid a price for that, but in retrospect, it was money well spent as I enjoyed the hell out of it, learned a lot about myself, and have been able to use that self-knowledge and experience in other parts of my life.

And that's the other aspect. We can look at our experiences and see how they helped us later, or we can beat ourselves up and said, "woulda/shoulda." I still struggle with the latter, but that again, is another choice we have.

[tabs]

Why not take your vacation in the winter time. Get U out of the hum drum cold to a nice sunny clim for a week or two...

U have never stuck anyplace, you aren't running from geography your running from yourself. Virtually everything you have said is superficial. Counseling is the best thing you can do for yourself...like Nostatus says...

[jwasbury]

I understand that winters can royally blow chunks in the Northeast, but I also know that "wherever you go, there you are."

Also keep in mind that the last 2 winters in particular have blown extra large chunks. Some of the worst ever recorded, I believe.

I am reminded a bit of my father and step-mother, who are two peas in a pod and never seem to be happy with what they have, where they are, etc. Been watching it for years.

She's changing jobs every couple years, doing technical writing for big telecom or pharma companies (the $ is good), then gets burned out and wants to do something for "the soul." She went to divinity school and is an ordained pastor now, working for small, dying congregations. She's burned out on that now and the cycle repeats.

They moved from the NYC metro zone to "get out of the rat race" and bought a place in the "country" part of NJ. She and Dad spent loads of time and $ renovating an old house, and now decided its "too much house" or "cost of living is too high", "taxes too high", etc.

Now they want to sell the house, and move somewhere that the cost of living is reasonable (as in cheap), but there are good work opportunities and where people are educated and enlightened and there is good "culture." I'm pretty certain that we're talking about some kind of non-existent nirvana here and such a place doesn't really exist. The reality is there are always compromises between cost of living/job opportunities/cultural opportunities/weather.

Another analogy that seems fitting for the venue, putting this is a car context:
1) reliable
2) cheap
3) fast

^pick 2

Regardless, I hope you can find a happy place for yourself, whether its a physical location or a state of mind.

[ckelly78z]

Luckily, I have been with the same company for 16 years now (50 years old) that has treated me well throughout all my (listed previously) health problems and an accident that left me learning to walk again and off work for 5.5 months, just 3 years ago. This job doesn't pay well, but it pays enough to keep a roof over my head and , for the area I live in pays more than other companies doing the same work, and has a nice matching % 401K, WITH a full pension also, and good health care coverage. I guess you could kinda say that I am stuck in this job, but we make it work.

I too, have huge issues with the rotton, overcast, cold, windy, snowy weather, and I have to secure a great deal of firewood every year to heat my house which takes unimaginable time and effort. The saving grace of all of this is living on 10 paid off acres of my own with no near niegbors, or even much noise. I can't imagine having to live in a metropolitan area and having to deal with SADS.

You may want to look up SADS on google, because I thought there was some treatment for it in the form of extra lighting in your house or possibly a tanning bed. I know what helps me cope with cold Winters is our 6 person hot tub out on the glassed in, unheated back porch...after being chilled to the bone, that 105 degree water warms you right up.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by nostatic

It is always by choice. If you're getting pushed into it, then push back. I find it hard to believe that there was only one job in the entire country that you could do and it was back east. You're being held prisoner by your perception.

Have you done therapy? I did a number of years of it and it helped a lot (some might say I need more...). The world is what the world is. We make it something else by the way we view it and the judgements we place on things internal and external.

So U really went in and had your head shrunk down to the size of a pea? How did that make you feel? Can U tell us about your experiences? In what ways do u think it helped you?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by tabs

So U really went in and had your head shrunk down to the size of a pea? How did that make you feel? Can U tell us about your experiences? In what ways do u think it helped you?

I blame my mother...

I had two different therapists starting when my marriage started going south. The first was great - down-to-earth, fairly positive but didn't let me get away with anything. Went to her for about 5 years (before-during-after divorce). She helped me figure out why I was having the thoughts I was having and making the decisions that I was making. She also helped shine a light on some pretty ugly stuff that one tends to gloss over, rationalize, or ignore altogether. It turns out that the subconscious though doesn't forget and can extract its revenge.

The second therapist was a ball-buster - very cold and austere. She was of a certain school that was heavily into dreams and psychoanalysis (an offshoot of Jungian). I went to her for about a year and a half until I reached a point where it was actually going the wrong direction. Therapy is a weird beast - the goal of the therapist (who is also a business person) is to have you eventually not use their services. So it is tricky to figure out when to disengage and work on your own. In my case it was tied to a relationship so it was a little easier to make that decision.

I haven't met anyone who couldn't benefit from some good psychotherapy. But plenty of people do just fine without it. It is pretty amazing to be able to connect things that happened decades ago pretty much directly to actions you take today. The human mind is whack...