Triumph ITB - AEM Infinity Project

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by trond

i have this kit sitting on the shelf but have three issues that stops me;
1) I never managed to get insulators as the ones who have them refused to sell to me because of the CIS cutout. I will overcome by not having any insulators.
2) Then I don't have a vacuum manifold for MAP. Just make one or are there available to buy ?
3) I don't see anything I like for oil catch can. Anyone know of any self draining ones ? I have one that drains back to the sump on the plane and it works very well but never found anything similar for the SC. Some company in Australia had one but no longer sell it because of low demands

1. Search plastics companies in your area. You can buy a small sheet of phenolic for not a ton of money and cut it with a bandsaw or jigsaw or scrollsaw or hacksaw. (I'm sure you get the picture.)
2. You can make one or buy them. Very readily available on eBay. You need 6 inlets, one outlet at a minimum. It's just a chamber/reservoir that all your vac lines connect to. Don't overthink it.
3. Get creative. Any overflow can with a port on the bottom can be made to work. Similarly, any catch-can without a port in the bottom can easily be made to have one. Simple is best. I love the idea of draining the catch can back into the sump as long as the oil gets (and stays for a bit) hot enough to burn off any water. In daily-driven (especially non-garaged) cars, draining into the sump isn't a great idea. They condense a lot of water vapor into water which would end up in your sump. I reckon a garaged air-cooled 911 will be just fine. But don't take that as gospel. There are myriad threads on catch-cans here on Pelican and I think they all touch on draining to the sump vs being drained manually.

[al lkosmal]

Originally Posted by shamrok

Is anybody out there running an idle control valve? Curious if anybody has it and the connector part numbers readily available. Best I’ve come up with it part# 1240888, but not especially confident in that.

look at this.....

https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/solenoids-and-outputs/idlecontrol/

regards,
al

[pampadori]

I purchased a VW vr6 idle control valve but never installed it. You would have to figure out how to plumb it in to your vacuum manifold (my best guess).
This is what it looks like:


You could also install a hand throttle that would essentially crack the throttles open slightly. This was how Porsche handled idle control before CIS.

Do throttle by wire setups usually have a separate idle control valve or do they use the throttle motor to allow extra airflow?

[lvporschepilot]

Originally Posted by pampadori

do they use the throttle motor to allow extra airflow?

That's a good question. I do not think AEM has the functionality for the throttle-by-wire to do anything other than control the throttle inputs as performed by ones foot. Tunability for idle based on temps etc would be nice.

[jpgroth]

For those with CIS, is there any other way of adapting these manifolds to the intake port? I’d ideally like to not weld the injector notch. I’m currently in process of pulling my CIS for Clays kit. This is what my intake ports look like




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[al lkosmal]

JP,
Yes, typically phenolic spacers/insulators, that are shaped to block the CIS injector notch are used. I get these from PMO.

regards,
al

[shamrok]

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

look at this.....

https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/solenoids-and-outputs/idlecontrol/

regards,
al

Not gonna lie, I’m feeling pretty dumb looking at that. Where would I pipe this in? I imagine one vacuum line goes to the manifold, what about the the 2nd? Is the idea that the Jeep IAC plunger adds more air to each ITB via the manifold?

I’ve just been blipping the throttle but it’s not very elegant, and I often blip a little much and not a big fan of 3K RPM engine starts, lol

[Nux]

Originally Posted by shamrok

Not gonna lie, I’m feeling pretty dumb looking at that. Where would I pipe this in? I imagine one vacuum line goes to the manifold, what about the the 2nd? Is the idea that the Jeep IAC plunger adds more air to each ITB via the manifold?

I’ve just been blipping the throttle but it’s not very elegant, and I often blip a little much and not a big fan of 3K RPM engine starts, lol

Megasquirt is a great, cheap and reliable engine management system. Perfect for an easy entry into the World of EFI.

However, if you do not have allready bought a MS box that can handle TPS and idle control - well, then you have to dust off those soldering skills.

If you're a DIY guy, but not comfortable with eletronics, then I would recommend a 'backdate' hand throttle installation. Easy and works.


Or buy an updated MS box or AEM

[shamrok]

I’ve got Microsquirt and EFI Source sells a stepper idle control module that I’m looking at, and at this point I’m just trying to understand the mechanics of it all. I’m not opposed to doing a hand throttle, but I kinda just want to get it to a point that I can just get in, turn the key, and go.

[trond]

mister Nux. How do I backdate a hand throttle installation. I have one now using a 924 water heater valve to bleed in air below throttle housing but after converting to ITBs that will no longer work. So what exactly will it take to get a mechanical hand throttle ? I assume it will apply throttle, as in physically give gas

[jpgroth]

Originally Posted by shamrok

but I kinda just want to get it to a point that I can just get in, turn the key, and go.

Same here. As previously stated it sounds like some version of megasquirt can accomplish the TPS. I'd think the TPS built into the end of the Speed Triples could satisfy this for the ECU? Maybe not?

[shamrok]

Originally Posted by jpgroth

Same here. As previously stated it sounds like some version of megasquirt can accomplish the TPS. I'd think the TPS built into the end of the Speed Triples could satisfy this for the ECU? Maybe not?

TPS works great with the CCM kit, and it's already equipped with the sensor, you just need to get the right connector. I have this one and it fits perfect for this application, regardless of the one review, 3-Wire Connector.

What EFI you planning to run?

[Clay.0]

Originally Posted by jpgroth

Same here. As previously stated it sounds like some version of megasquirt can accomplish the TPS. I'd think the TPS built into the end of the Speed Triples could satisfy this for the ECU? Maybe not?

I think we're talking about a few different things here. The TPS on the ITBS only measure throttle position, they are not an actuator to open and close the throttle.

Options for cold idle control:

1. Drive by wire setup, ECU controls throttle bodies via actuator to be cracked up during cold start - Most of us don't have this option with our ITB setups
2. Backdate' hand throttle - manually holding the ITB's open with additional linkage (in addition to the foot throttle linkage)
3. Idle control valve controlled by AEM/Megasquirt. This is basically creating a controlled vacuum leak to raise the idle without changing the throttle position or opening the throttle bodies.
4. Hold throttle open with foot pedal for 20-30 seconds until engine warms up and holds idle.

I'm in Houston and option 4 works well for me, cold starts aren't really an issue so i've never needed additional measures.

[jpgroth]

Originally Posted by Clay.0

I think we're talking about a few different things here. The TPS on the ITBS only measure throttle position, they are not an actuator to open and close the throttle.



Options for cold idle control:



1. Drive by wire setup, ECU controls throttle bodies via actuator to be cracked up during cold start - Most of us don't have this option with our ITB setups

2. Backdate' hand throttle - manually holding the ITB's open with additional linkage (in addition to the foot throttle linkage)

3. Idle control valve controlled by AEM/Megasquirt. This is basically creating a controlled vacuum leak to raise the idle without changing the throttle position or opening the throttle bodies.

4. Hold throttle open with foot pedal for 20-30 seconds until engine warms up and holds idle.



I'm in Houston and option 4 works well for me, cold starts aren't really an issue so i've never needed additional measures.

Gotchya. That clears the air. I’m leaning towards option 3 as we have some chilly fall days in WI. Is a sensor needed for this? Or can Megasquirt, the plan here, simply control that? EDIT..read above posts about the VR6 idle control valve

As for TPS, I’m gathering that this is the little black sensor with two torx screws on the ends of the ITB grouping? I noticed in some of your images Clay, that it looks like you have two installed? One in the rear on the ITBs covering cylinders 4-6, which looks like it’s the one that’s wired? And then an additional in the front, not wired, on the ITB grouping covering cylinders 1-3.

['76 911S 3.0]

Originally Posted by lvporschepilot

That's a good question. I do not think AEM has the functionality for the throttle-by-wire to do anything other than control the throttle inputs as performed by ones foot. Tunability for idle based on temps etc would be nice.

The Infinity does control idle via the DBW throttle body. It can also be used for other functions such as traction control and boost control, much more than just a pedal position vs. throttle blade position calibration table.

The main idle base position table is based on temps and can also flare the initial start to help assist starting in colder temperatures.

[theenico]

Originally Posted by jpgroth

As for TPS, I’m gathering that this is the little black sensor with two torx screws on the ends of the ITB grouping? I noticed in some of your images Clay, that it looks like you have two installed? One in the rear on the ITBs covering cylinders 4-6, which looks like it’s the one that’s wired? And then an additional in the front, not wired, on the ITB grouping covering cylinders 1-3.

That is the factory Triumph TPS. Each set of ITBs comes with one. For our application, you only need one of them hooked up to the computer.

[polo classic]

Isn’t it possible to control idle by ignition timing? By creating a “V” in the table, where you by altering the ignition timing force the idle towards the bottom of the V?


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[shamrok]

Originally Posted by polo classic

Isn’t it possible to control idle by ignition timing? By creating a “V” in the table, where you by altering the ignition timing force the idle towards the bottom of the V?

This is actually what I’m doing on mine, especially for cold weather starts. I have ignition advance set up to add (on a curve) up to 15 degrees of advance to kick the idle up to at least 800.

It’s not perfect and bounces back and forth a couple minutes if I don’t drive it immediately, but it does work in lieu of a better solution. Those in warmer weather probably don’t need it, if they just give it some gas for a few seconds on start.

[JCstomper]

Originally Posted by Clay.0

I’ll have to check my photobucket account, it should still be active.

I still have 10 or so manifold sets available, once those are gone i don’t plan on doing another run for awhile, if at all. Focusing on the day job and family, so I’ve suspended the CCM website.

Still available here to answer any questions.

Just saw this. Do you have any sets still available? I don't plan on really getting into my car until July, because I need to finish my rallye golf first.. but I really do not want to miss out on your set up either..

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[Gabe.]

Have any of you managed to keep AC somehow?