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Smart quod bastardus
 
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OBX header fitment issues

Just wanted to poll the group and see if anyone else had as many fitment issues with (OBX, GSF?) style headers as I am having. Ordered these units (with heat shrouding) from Imagine Auto along with K27S turbo and am having all sorts of trouble with getting the system to fit in my 79 930.
First the good news:
The headers appear to be well made, the welds look good, and they bolted up to the cylinder heads fine.
Now the bad news:
1) The turbo outlet collector appears to be about 1/4 inch to high and to far inboard towards the engine. This means the turbo support bracket does not fit. Though I slotted the mounting holes on the bracket that moount to the engine cradle, the 4 bolt holes and the main exhaust hole in the bracket are about 1/4" off center from the turbine exhaust hole. I don't see anyway of correcting this unless cutting and rewelding the bracket.
2) The outlet tubes that are supposed to connect to the fiberglass hoses from the engine are completely out of plane with the stock location and the passenger side tube is about 1 inch from the muffler when mounted. Makes it pretty impossible to get a heater hose on there. It gets worse, the drivers side heater tube that connects near the tranny to the hoses from the heater valves lies about 1/2 inch at most from the axle and cv joint boot. Makes me wonder if the cv boot is gonna hit or cook when the suspension travels thru its motion.
3) The adaptor that provides the o-ring seal for the intercooler up pipe that mounts on the cast outlet of the compressor housing tore up 2 -orings upon trying to install it. I think that it is just too small an ID to allow the o-ring to compress as it is installed over the end of the compressor housing. No amount of grease made this slide on any easier. Wound up siliconing the joint to prevent leakage after install.
4) Now the real issue is that the B&B intercooler no longer fits in the engine bay. It is now sitting too high and none of the mounting brackets come close to lining up with the intake manifold or the little support bracket on the fan housing. This was perfect with the old 3LDZ turbo and OEM exhaust. On top of that the engine lid comes no where near closing without major trimming and cutting of the intercooler sealing plate mounted on the wing. This needs to be trimmed around the outline of the intercooler to allow it to pass thru the plate as the lid is closed. I have rotated the compressor outlet as much as possible to drop the overall mounting height but this puts the up pipe connections at big angles at the intercooler end and the compressor outlet end.

Anyone have suggestions on what they have done to make this all go together. I am really disappointed in the overall fit of this upgrade considering the amount of money spent on these items. When I ordered it I was under the impression this was a bolt in upgrade, I do not like the fit of the intercooler now at all.

Should I have spent the extra money (about $1100) for B&B exhaust?
Would this have been more of a bolt in?
Old 09-10-2007, 12:42 PM
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I'll just quickly point out that as far as fitting the turbo support bracket, that's a K27 issue...not header related. I'll find a picture of what I did to fit my support bracket. Some just leave the thing off and rely on the muffler hanger bracket.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
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Last edited by sand_man; 09-10-2007 at 12:54 PM..
Old 09-10-2007, 12:49 PM
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I really wanted to keep the turbo bracket, as at the time I was running a "zork" and didn't have a suitbale muffler that I could use to help tie all of this togther. Thus, I slotted my bracket (this was when I still had B&B headers):


When I went with OBX headers, everything still lined up perfectly.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-10-2007, 12:53 PM
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There is no doubt about it, these Chinese headers are hella cheap. It's very possible that you got a bogus set!

Mine don't have heat, so I can't comment on number 2.
As for the B&B intercooler, you will need to remove the factory shrouding inside the tail. Turning the compressor "up-pipe" as you have done will also help with fitment.

These things really aren't bolt on (no mods involved). Sad but true...
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)

Last edited by sand_man; 09-10-2007 at 01:11 PM..
Old 09-10-2007, 01:05 PM
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The K27s are not a bolt on as stated.
Have you tried replacing the K27 with your stock turbo to see how it all lines up? Doing that would eliminate the variation seen strictly caused by the K27 and may give you a better idea of what needs done.
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:21 PM
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One other thing I should point out is that you may need to "clock" the turbo. It is possible to adjust how the turbo housing as aligned...I'm sure Stephen (Porschephd) will chime in.
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)
Old 09-10-2007, 01:22 PM
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I already clocked the turbo compressor housing as much as possible. This is what I meant in the last sentence of item 4 in my original message. This only gained about 1/8 inch of vertical height.
The issues I did not mention were that the intake pipe from the OEM BOV casting (the pipe that goes thru the heat shielding into the inlet of the compressor) is clearly off center downward by the same 1/4 ich that the turbo is high. This is not optimal for intake flow into the nicely machined venturi on my K27 turbo.
Just seems like a lot of modification, which I do not mind, as long as it is an improvement on design. I do not like making mods, especially irreversible ones in the case of the intercooler shrouding, to fix fitment issues with expensive aftermarket parts. Some of the dimensional inaccuracy of the headers, especially the heater pipe locations are off by inches not fractions of inches. Effectively I cannot connect to them with flexible tubing to even get the heat I wanted in the first place without cutting them and rewelding sections of the tube.
Everyone, thanks for the advice so far though.......keep ideas coming.

Fred
Old 09-10-2007, 02:42 PM
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What header do you actually have?

Is it GSF or OBX?

Technically they may very well be the same thing, but they are made by different companies.

Just curious, thanks!
Old 09-10-2007, 03:11 PM
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IA is selling OBX headers?????????? Whoa would not have thought. hell I wouldn't sell them as they seam like too many headaches are possible.. Anyhow interested in feedback on them
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:45 PM
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You have 2 issues going; your new headers and your new turbo.

I know it is a lot of added work, but if you remove the K27 and install your original turbo on your new headers you will be able to see exactly what problems are due to the headers alone. Then you decide what to do about the headers. After that is done you will have a much easier time re-aligning the K27 as many of us have been through it and know exactly what to do.

Can you show us pictures?

Also, I did not read it in you post, but I assume you have contacted iA for help. Stephen is a busy guy but he always has time to help out a customer.
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Old 09-10-2007, 06:34 PM
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I have the K27 turbo and the support bracket will NOT fit unless it is modified either by slotting it or as I and many others did , cut and re-weld it. I also had to get an up tube adapter from IA to connect the new turbo with my B&B IC. Did you buy this part? You can read my post on trimming the shroud to fit the B&B IC. It was mostly trial and fit until it was done but it works great. I don't have heat on my Schnell headers so I can't help you on that issue but the suggestions above sound like good ones. Make sure the old turbo will fit the new headers before you modify anything or you will be screwed if you have to send them back. Good luck.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:42 PM
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Is the header from GSF or OBX?

This is Albert from GSF. I have a customer report exhaust leakage, I have him send back the header with heat and I installed it on my car, it takes about 4 - 5 hours to install it. The header is working fine with my installation.

I had the T-76 turbocharger with T-4 flange ( good for 800 HP ) on the car, for this installation I have to use the K-72 7200 turbocharger.

I install it without the turbocharger support, I put a hanger on the muffler. The muffler I used is round 3 inch inlet 3 inch outlet light weight.

The K-27 turbocharger is not bolt on the inlet tube need to be cut and use silicone hose to connect beween the turbocharger and the inlet tube.
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:32 AM
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Hey Fred, not sure if you saw this, but here is a tip about fitment that Albert (GSF) posted in another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by race911turbo View Post
To install the header with the fixed flange,

Rear bumper need to come off..takes about 25 minutes to take the rear bumper off.

Bolt on the turbocharger on the left header and prefit without the right header to clock the turbocharger. both side of the header need to go in at a same time, a extra helping hand will finish the installation faster........... This is the only way to install the header with fix flange.........
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back in the saddle: '95 993 - just another black C2
*SOLD*: '87 930 GP White - heroin would have been a cheaper addiction...
"Ladies and Gentlemen, from Boston Massachusetts, we are Morphine, at your service..." - Mark Sandman (RIP)

Last edited by sand_man; 09-11-2007 at 05:46 AM..
Old 09-11-2007, 04:34 AM
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If both side of header does not go in at a same time, one side of header will look like won't fit ( Flange will hit the cylinder fin and creat 2 inch gap).....The swival flange I made will allow install the header one side at a time makes the installation easier.

( one man installation, extra person gets to hold the tools. )
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 09-11-2007, 08:05 AM
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I ran over the speed bump 3 times scratch the header no crack.
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1975 914, 1988 944 turbo S sold.
1986 944 turbo resleeve 2.7, DTA S-60 PRO.
1986 911 Carrera with 965 turbo motor, DTA S-80 PRO.
1989 930 EFI, DTA, Carrera intake, twinturbo,2x GT-35R.
1991 964 convertible, wide body conversion.
Old 09-11-2007, 08:16 AM
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It sounds like I have alot more fitment problems than most of you guys with the K27S.
I will try to send photos since I do not have any currently and need to take some. This may shed light on the issues better.
----Regarding the turbo support bracket, slotting the holes where it mounts to the engine only solves the alignment issues in one plane of movement (across car), the other plane of misalignment in fore-aft direction cannot be corrected without cutting and rewelding the bracket.
----Regarding the special adaptor for the turbo outlet, which I did purchase with the kit. I had alot of trouble installing that to the turbo outlet because it was machined too tight and the o-ring was destroyed while pressing it on. I greased the hell out of the o-ring and the end of the turbo before pressing it on and it still tore the or-ring. It still sits too high now and is what is ultimately causing the intercooler to sit too high and not mount to the engine or the hood to close.
----No excuse for the heater tubes to be so far off.
-------I do not know if it was OBX or GSF headers I recieved from IA, they did not specify when I placed the order. How can I tell by looking at them myself?
Old 09-11-2007, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmeister View Post
-------I do not know if it was OBX or GSF headers I recieved from IA, they did not specify when I placed the order. How can I tell by looking at them myself?

My OBX headers came with an OBX badge/plate welded on them. It is located on the header pipe of what I recall is cylinder #6.

Took a quick pic for ya. Sorry for the blur but you can still see what I am talking about.

Old 09-12-2007, 01:18 AM
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Have you contacted iA with your questions?
They should be able to clear all this up very quickly.
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:16 AM
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Old 09-12-2007, 02:16 PM
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Just an update to this post:
Removed the turbo again and cut about 1/4 inch off the end of the compressor housing. Basically the casting had a small flared chamfer on the end that would act as a barb on a typical hose fitting to prevent the hose from pulling back off once installed. This allowed me to drop the overall height of the intercooler by the same amount once everything went back in the car.
The intake pipe to the compressor inlet sitsabout 1/4 inch downward off center. Not optimal for flow and makes the connction with the silicone coupler stressed.
Turbo support bracket removed, not being used unless seriously modified by cutting and rewelding. Slotting mounting holes where it mounts to engine cradle only effective in one plane of movement.
Heater hose inlet air pipes from heater boxes cut down to allow clearance to other engine parts like muffler to get flexible heater hose attached. They are wrong diameter as well....they are 2.) inch OD, heater hose from engine is standard 2 3/8 inch ID. Must install reducer couplings to allow proper fit of heater hose to tubes. Why could not they be the correct OD to begin with?
Heater outlet tube from heater box on drivers side collides with inboard cv joint boot during suspension movement. Must cut off this pipe, remove a 1-2 inch section, and reweld to heater box to provide necessary clearance to cv/axel joint.
Pictures will be provided later to document the mods.
Apparently these were GSF headers as there was no tag or plate attached to the headers indicating OBX.
Old 09-17-2007, 01:07 PM
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