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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
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Installed Digital WUR - AFR problem
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 394
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You need to ck. and see if you have a good hot wire going to the harness that plugs into the wur. If you loose power to it it will go into a fat mode like you are saying 9-10 or so on the afr. If you unplud the power to the utcis and asart it you will see what I mean . It will be hard to start because it will be so rich . If you have an intermitten power failure to it, it will fluctuate like that. That could have contributed to your problem with the stock wur. If that is of no help I would call Steve and ask his advice as he is a car guy himself and can probably point you in the right direction .Good luck,when you get it lined out you will love it.
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,794
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I have no experience with the digital WURs, but assuming it's installed and programmed correctly, perhaps there are other areas you should investigate which might cause the same problems you're experiencing regardless of the type of WUR you're using.
One thing comes to mind: Are you still running with all your emmissions stuff connected...specifically the Lambda controls (O2 sensor and the frequency valve it controls)? May be a malfunction there somewhere. Logic would tell you to suspect the newest addition (the WUR), but don't ignore other potential causes. Just my 2 cents....
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification. |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
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Thank you 964 T and Mark for the advises. After I got home, I tried to start the car again. It was reading 14.7 on the warm up cycle, then going down to 14.2. After maybe 5 minutes, it went up to 15.7-15.9. It didn't become so rich like 9-10 like last night. I don't know if it is the intermittent power failure because last night, while the AFR was going down from 13.5 to 10, the display on the UTCIS software did not change values nor did not flicker if there was intermittent power failure. But I 'm not sure.
Since I was reading a little leaner a while ago, I remembered what Mark said to check all other stuff like O2 Sensor, I unplugged the stock oxygen sensor and the AFR went rich like 12.8-13. I adjusted the fuel distributor and got the 14.2-14.5. The AFR became stable even after 5-10 minutes. I ran the car on boost and the car pulled stronger than last night. I just need some more adjustment on the MAP on my digital WUR coz I am running rich on boost like 10.4. Went back home and let the car rest for 10 minutes. I started the car again and the AFR was 14.3-14.7 and a couple of minutes later settled to 14.2-14.3. I would say the car ran better and more stable with the stock oxygen sensor unplugged. Will it be better this way unplugged or will it do bad effect to the car's performance in the long run? What would be the normal AFR if you are cruising in the 2nd gear on 3000 rpm and 40 mph? My AFR is 13.6. Is this lean or rich? Thank you again for all the help! |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Central Washington State
Posts: 3,794
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Quote:
AFR's at 3000 rpm/2nd gear is kinda up for grabs, depending on you car and current mods. Ideal from an emmissions and complete fuel burning standpoint is 14.7, but many people find that to be too lean. I have mine set to where at idle I'm at around 14.2 fully warmed up, and about 13.8-14.0 at cruise. Your 13.6 should not be a concern if the car likes it there.
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Mark H. 1987 930, GP White, Wevo shifter, Borla exhaust, stock everything else. The result of a massive Pelicanite good will fire recovery effort. Truely an open book, ready for the slippery slopes to modification. |
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930,, it would help if we knew your year and mods of your car.
13's are a little rich at no boost and cruise in my opinion Where are you located ??
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"Todd" 98 Tahoe ,2007 Saturn Vue 86 930 black and stock, 80 930 blue tracdog 91 Spec Miata (yeah I race a chick car) "life"ll kill ya" Warren Zevon |
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Infidel
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
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Jonathan. 87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines..... Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan ![]() |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 7,269
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Is your vacuum at idle correct and is your D-WUR vac/boost tube hooked up correctly?
Check your car for proper vac at idle (leaks). If you are not maintaining a proper vacuum level the D-WUR will think you are accelerating. The D-WUR only knows you are accelerating or from the Vac/boost signal it receives. I takes intake maniflod pressure and the RPM to determine how much to adjust control pressure and thus your AFR. If it is not getting the right signal, it can not work as intended. I would suspect that at idle you want to be around 14.5-15/1 AFR. With accel off idle go instantly to about 13-13.2/1 (max pre boost TQ) and then start to become richer as boost starts to build. Than at cruse go back to about 14.5/1. It could also be that you are not getting any signal to the MAP circuit at all as if the vac line is not hooked up. In this case it will think you are accelerating at all times but not to the point where it is getting boost and thus run lean on boost. Lastly, if the D-WUR vac/boost line is hooked up to the wrong place, it could get really wacky as many of the ports off the throttle body are ported and the signal changes at different throttle angle . Just a thought. |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
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Thanks for ALL the replies and all the suggestions!
I am running a lot better now with a little adjustment on the MAP but still a little rich 13.3-13.8on cruise. On idle, it's 14.2-14.7. Just need more tweaking on the MAP. I haven't tried my AFR's yet on boost on my new MAP. I tried to call Unwired Tools several times already but no call back. I think it would be better to post some screen pics here of the MAP and some AFR, boost and RPM pics so you could help me fine tune the digital WUR. Last night, I tried to hook up again the stock oxygen sensor, still good afr's on idle. I tried to run the car and after a couple of minutes, then the AFR's went down to 9.5-10. I pulled over and unhook the stock oxygen sensor and went back to normal. It is acting up when the stock O2 sensor is on. The O2 sensor is only 6 months old. 911st, it's my mechanic who did the install. I can see that there is a T-connector wherein 1 hose (black) comes from the digi WUR, the orange hose was cut and the ends were plugged into the two ends of the T connector. I'll take some pics later and post it here to verify if it was done correctly. On idle, UTCIS software is displaying these data: Current Control Pressure: 3.5 Target Control Pressure: 3.5 Manifold Air Pressure: 0.9 RPM: 1000 My AFR is reading 14.2-14.7 930dreizig and TJ930, my car is an 87 930 with minor mods like K27s, Tial Wastegate with 1 bar spring, Fabspeed dual exhaust and Evo air intake. I am from North Las Vegas. TJ930, thanks for the email. I'll send you my current MAP later. It's running better now but still a little rich off idle and cruise. By the way, the green wire is not connected to the O2 sensor. Thanks again! Last edited by 930_noob; 10-22-2009 at 03:51 PM.. |
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Forced Induction Junkie
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I do not recommend having the stock 930 lambda system running simultaneously with the DWUR. What you have is two systems with different mapping attempting to adjust lambda at idle at the same time. My $0.02, can the narrow-band O2 sensor and put in a wide-band to tune, remove the WB sensor, plug the bung and enjoy!
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Dave '85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 394
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Where and with what are you getting your readings for afr,tail pipe or welded in Bung. Just wonder if you could be getting false readings.
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 394
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This might help for a starting point . It works on mine ,but I have a Turbonetics turbo that might flow more @ idle also,don't know but it gives me an adv. AFR of about 14.50-14.80 @ 900-1000 rpm. I have the early mod. with 1/2 as many set points as the latest version ,but it should work for either. On the map .4-2.8, .5-2.9 ,.6-2.9 ,.7-2.9 ,.8-3.0 ,.9-3.0.
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
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964T#304,
The bung is welded in the tail pipe where the wideband O2 is placed. I am using Zeitronix for my wideband controller. I read that some had problems with O2 placed in between the turbo and muffler due to excessive heat that is why I opted to place it in the tail pipe. Will it be higher AFR if placed in the tail pipe compared to placed in between the turbo and muffler? |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
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911st,
this is the picture of the hoses. It's hard to take pictures in there. I hope you can figure it out. Label #3 is the hose from the UTCIS, #1 goes to the manifold and #2 goes in behind and under the Fuel head but don't know where it is connected. Did my mechanic do it right? ![]() |
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Infidel
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,172
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Don't understand why that would be "T"'d to anything? Unless it runs to a boost gauge in the car?
__________________
Jonathan. 87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines..... Old 540 BMW, XB12S Modified, for being a total hooligan ![]() |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
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I read this from Unwired Tools website and I conclude that 911st analysis is the most logical to what is happening to my car.
This is for the UTCIS-V but probably applicable to UTCIS-PT http://unwiredtools.com/manuals/UTCIS_Application_Guide_A2.pdf pages 8-11 The correct manifold pressure for the digiWUR should be 0.4-0.5 bar at idle and mine is 0.9 bar at idle. It says that if it is 0.6 and greater, it could have a weak vacuum or could be what they call "performance camshafts." When I put a small load on the engine, the manifold pressure should go up from 0.4 to 0.6 or0.7. With mine, it is the other way around from 0.9 down to 0.6 or 0.7 then goes back again to 0.9 on idle. This is probably the reason why I am always on the rich side eventhough my control pressure is on 3.8 already. 911st, basing on the picture I posted, do you think it is hooked up correctly? Or is there a better vaccum line for the digiWUR to be hooked up? Last edited by 930_noob; 10-22-2009 at 11:59 PM.. |
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
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Quote:
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Thank you for your time, |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 394
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If you have the bung welded to close to the end of the tail pipe you will have air sucked back in tail pipe @ idle and get all kind of false readings. I have a NGK wide band o2 sensor and meter and in thier directions they say to install the bung 10 dia. of the size of the exhaust from the end ie." 3" exhaust =30 in." from end. Most folks say to mount it at about 6" from exhaust outlet of the turbo. I don't know what is best but mine works fine. I have 14.50-14.80 on idle. and with it set at about that it elimated the lean popping on deacceleration. Good luck
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
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Beepbeep,
honestly I don't know. It's my mechanic who did the install. Based on the picture, the #1 hose is connected directly from the Manifold and #2 hose goes behind the Fuel Head but a little further (throttle ???). Is this a correct install? If not, where can I see the right vacuum hose? And I see another hose (same kind of hose but longer) from behind the fuel head going to the front (vacuum filter??). 964T#304, my O2 sensor is bosch same sensor innovate is using, and says that it should be placed 6 inches after the turbo before the muffler but that specific space is only like 3 inches that is why some including me did not put it there due to excessive heat being so close to the turbo. I put the sensor right after the muffler and about 6-7 inches before the tip. Hopefully I am getting quite accurate readings. |
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Forced Induction Junkie
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Quote:
You're complaining about two pages of posts? Good grief, I've seen more than that concerning Porsche's placement of the ignition switch. ![]()
__________________
Dave '85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P |
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