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Forced Induction Junkie
 
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The spring is a nice afterthought. Don't know who came up with the idea, but kudos to you!

The spring should be weak enough to allow oil pressure to the ball overcome spring pressure, but enough spring pressure to allow the ball to seat against the cup.
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Dave
'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 05-12-2011, 03:39 PM
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you said there was oil in the air box? are sure it just didnt have too much oil in it? these are different from a 928 the engine has to be running and warmed up and on a level surface. then check the oils it should be below midway on the dipstick.
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88 turbo Guards red Targa slant nose, and yes I am a horsepower junkie, 3.4liter,7.5 to 1 JE pistons, Adjustable WUR, Imagine fuel head, 1 bar waste gate headers,allthe cis toys. Now apart to become the next EFI monster. fabbing my own intake, headers Individual throttle bodies, MS-3, pauter rods, Xtreme twin plugged heads, gt-2 evo cams cop's.
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Old 05-12-2011, 03:45 PM
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Dave,

Full credit for the spring goes to the "Horse Power God" Chris at TurboKraft. He uses a lot of Garrett Turbos and has added the spring as part of his turbo oiler package sold by TurboKraft.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 05-12-2011, 04:32 PM
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Today, after my 30 minutes of running ( my wife is pressing on ), i followed the write up from cole.
I removed the bumper for easy acess. I put the IC in place and removed the oil line from the drip tank. The oil is pouring out as it should, maybe With a little less pressure than pictured by Mr. Cole. The suction is great. I almost had to tell my wife to ease up on the throttle to get my finger out of the line.

After line was back in its place again, I removed the IC once again. Let me tell You this. The turbo and tubing leading up to the IC was soaked in oil, it was wetter than wet. Jeez...

I assume it is safe to say that the turbo is ready for a rebuild?

G

Last edited by Hoyo; 05-13-2011 at 06:04 AM..
Old 05-13-2011, 03:44 AM
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Forced Induction Junkie
 
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Provided you have followed all the advice......proper oil height in the main oil tank, turbo sump can keep up with the turbo's sump release of oil, oil discharge is not coming from air intake.....

My vote goes to the purchase of a NEW one. I have mixed feelings about rebuilding turbos.
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'85 930 Factory Special Wishes Flachbau
Werk I Zuffenhausen 3.3l/330BHP Engine with Sonderwunsch Cams, FabSpeed Headers, Kokeln IC, Twin Plugged Electromotive Crankfire, Tial Wastegate(0.8 Bar), K27 Hybrid Turbo, Ruf Twin-tip Muffler, Fikse FM-5's 8&10x17, 8:41 R&P
Old 05-13-2011, 04:31 AM
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G Man:

Proud of Ya !!!!! Your fast becoming the Porsche mechanic you didn't know you were.

Pretty much tells you a rebuild or a new turbo is in your future. Get the old turbo off and let us know what it looks
like inside. Do your homework before you decide what you are going to buy. Now is the point where you find out what you have
in the engine and decide the direction you go based on how you are going to use the car and what you want from the car.

You've got some of the best backup there is in Brian and Fairman, those two are the E.F. Hutton's of the 930 world, and are great resources in deciding which way to go and where to get it done.

We are all here to help, take your time, learn a lot, and enjoy the experience.

Cole
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Cole - 80 930 "The Old Sled"
Mods: TurboKraft Custom IC, 934 Headers, GSX 61, Zork, Port Work, SC Cams, Air Mod Fuel Dist Relocated, Water Meth Injection, BL WUR, MSD 6530, Greddy EBC, Synapse Bov, Short 2nd & 3rd with 8:37 R&P, Wevo Shifter, Coupling, and Mounts, MTX-L SSI-4, Big Brakes, Rebel Coilovers, Bilstein Sports.
Old 05-13-2011, 06:43 AM
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Thanks y'all.

This is a picture with the bumper off and getting ready to disconnect the line and check the flow. It took me about 2 seconds to figure out that pulling the bumper would be the thing to do.



When pulling the bumper, I could not help notice the professional electric work done.
I had to cut it all to get the bumper out of the way.




The turbo looked alright. No external leaks.




This picture shows the flow at idle or just a tad more. As Fairman said, its overdue for a oilchange.


Here's another one.
Is it possible to check/see if this is a 3.3 or a 3.0 without opening the engine?
I was told that all the internals are from a 3.3. Apparently "they" did a block swap with 3.0 when the 3.3 block cracked. I was told that the 3.3 and 3.0 have identical blocks.

As suggested, I'm trying to figure out whats in my possession.

G

Last edited by Hoyo; 05-13-2011 at 11:23 AM..
Old 05-13-2011, 11:19 AM
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Alright...

The turbo is off and I am attempting to take it apart so if there are any obvious reasons for the major oil blow through.

As I have loosened all the screws and removed the pressplates (?????), no problem to get the cold side cover off.
The rest is another story, fat chance. Do I have to loosen the screws on the turbowheels to get it apart?


The exhaust above is way to noisy and I really dont like the sound from it. I have to get someting different.



From the outside, the turbo looks good.



A small crack in the housing where the plate is fastened. Would that matter?



Turbo is off and I have started to take it apart. The oil spill at the bottom is evident.



This is where I am stuck. Bolts are off but no chance to get it separated.
Do I loosen the wheels?

There are no axial play and the wheels are spinning freely.

G
Old 05-16-2011, 02:26 AM
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I'm just back from the garage.

I took the compressor wheel off. Voila...4 screws more screws...one of them was worn out (???) I did the old hammer and screwdriver trick to get it off.

I could not tell much...as expected?

I assume the oil has to come out from the center bearing. It has two rings/seals to prevent the oil from coming through.

Maybe that hfs is a good idea?


Somebody has been here before.



To me...it looks good.



The center bearing with the two rings on it...looks good to me also. But then again, what do I know?

G
Old 05-16-2011, 04:08 AM
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I'm lightly discouraged after reading the treads about Turbokraft and their magic.
I wouldn't mind something like that.

My buddy Sig, a master of all trades, had a rebuild kit lying around which he slipped me by mail a couple of days ago.
I'll try that before I call Brian about his HFS.
G
Old 05-18-2011, 11:38 PM
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Gentlemen.
The mailman finally showed up with the kit today. My buddy Sig had the original KKK kit which he gave me. Thats what I call a buddy.
First thing that struck me is how nice and tight the new thrust bearing fits in the housing compared to the one that was there. I could move the old one from side to side.
A short stop at the mens room and I'm on my way to the garage once again to swap bearings, seals and put the turbo back together.

While I have been waiting for the kit, I have cleaned out the piping and hoses. The cranckshaft breather hose was halfway clogged by the gooey grayish stuff (oil foaming?).

G
Old 05-26-2011, 03:28 AM
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Hmmm.....

Are the seal plate bolts torx???
my t30 does not fit that well and the pattern on the bolt heads looks to be more square than torx bits.

Anyone????

G
Old 05-26-2011, 06:19 AM
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Ehhh.....

Maybe I should just keep quiet...i stopped by the local hardware store and found the perfect fit..T35..
Oh well, back to work.

G
Old 05-26-2011, 07:30 AM
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Alright..an update.

After my superior turbo rebuilding session, I put it all together and took it out for a short spin. Seemed to be alright.
The next day, smoke on startup but not that much. I was thinking residual oil in the IC.
Did a longer run with boost. Seemed alright, let it idle for 4 minutes before I shut it down.
The third day on start up, smoker...and it never stoped smoking. I dismounted the muffler and saw that oil was in the exhaust(??) part of the turbo. I dismounted the tube on the other side on the turbo and I also found oil in there. Both seals are leaking.
When I cleaned out the line from the drip tank to the scavenge pump, I found that the line was somewhat squeezed together in the last bend before the pump. When I followed Cole's write up, i did not put the line into the bucket to check for return. All I did was to put my finger in the line to check for suction which was great.
I will do that now just to see if there is a difference in turbo oil output vs pump quantity flow. The line needs to be replaced anyway.
Anyone on where I can get a good return line?

About the turbo..I'm in for a new one.
So back to my original question ( slightly modified), replace the K27-7006 with a K27HFS or something else?

G
Old 06-11-2011, 01:45 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I have a new HFS sitting on the shelf. Characteristics are night and day different than the 7006. Early spool, linear onset, pulls like a train past redline. Your choice depends on which characteristic you desire.
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:13 AM
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Alright...

The HFS from Brian is on it's way.

Can anyone guide me to a place where I can get a new hard oil reurn line (from turbo driptank to scavenge pump) or a modified oil return line?

G
Old 06-16-2011, 01:34 PM
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I have a used hard oil scavenge line if you want it, it is P/N 93010733803. I replaced it with a flex line. The new line is $261.25 from our host. Mine is $50. Take your pick.

Mark
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Old 06-16-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WERK I View Post
The spring is a nice afterthought. Don't know who came up with the idea, but kudos to you!

The spring should be weak enough to allow oil pressure to the ball overcome spring pressure, but enough spring pressure to allow the ball to seat against the cup.
Thanks!

Not just for Garretts, and not trying to add restriction (a correctly sized restrictor fitting at the turbocharger is more effective and controllable). The spring is just there to add pressure on the ball and stop oiling after the crankcase oil pressure drops enough after shutoff.

Why?

That was actually a solution first concocted for a 1986-88 930 with a K27 hybrid (turbo from reputable builder) that smoked like crazy on startup, even after a complete remanufacturing. The problem was over-oiling on shutoff, similar to a 993 Turbo. If you disconnected the drip can, ran the engine a moment and shut it off, oil would drain out of the turbocharger for at least 5 minutes. It had a large drip can which was ventilated.
Got a dozen different springs, found a pressure that worked ideal, and the over-oiling problem disappeared. Shut off the idling engine and maybe 5 seconds of oil flow.
Next engine start up: no smoking.


A note about the hollow bolt in the photo:
Maybe it's that the bolt is turned 90deg, but I don't see the usual groove in the bottom of the bolt. The bolt looks too short, like it's been ground down or replaced with a standard 14mm hollow bolt.
That's a huge no-no.
The slot is there so that when the ball is pushed against the hollow bolt by oil pressure, oil can flow around the ball and through the slot to get out to the oil supply line to oil the turbocharger.
Use a standard hollow bolt, and the ball gets pushed up and almost seals against the bolt. Greatly reduced oil flow, if at all. Learned that the $$$ way.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:46 PM
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Mark.
Thank You for Your offer. What I have in mind is a flexline. Where did You get it?

Chris.
That bolt is turned 90*, the slots are there as they are supposed to be.

What I am worried about is the return oil. The 5 minutes are interesting.
I'm going camping this weekend with some buddies and will do the oil return container trick as prescribed by Cole on monday.

I suspect that my squeezed oil return line may cause some restrictions on the oilflow. I would have shown You some pictures of the line but my brand new Sony SLT 55 camera had to be sendt back for repairs after 2 weeks of use.
Right now I'm regretting not getting that Canon.

G

Last edited by Hoyo; 06-17-2011 at 02:42 AM..
Old 06-17-2011, 02:39 AM
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SAIGON 68
 
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what an excellent post. thank you.

just my opinion. what an excellent post. thank you. jp

Quote:
Originally Posted by cole930 View Post
Hoyo:

I have no idea how much you know about the scavenge system so please excuse
any excess information.

Start at the center rear of the engine you will find; The red switch sits on top of the banjo bolt that supplies inlet oil to the turbo.



This is an exploded view of that assembly: Make sure all the parts are there and assembled correctly, especially the 9mm ball.





The oil line will run to the front of the engine and connect to the turbo on top and between the turbo halves. This is what oils the turbo.




Your drip tank then connects to the bottom center section of the turbo. The drip tank holds the oil as it flows through the turbo and the tank has a hose connected to it that goes to the scavenge pump which sucks the oil out of the tank. The scavenge pump is located on the rear of the motor on the drivers side. The pump is a simple gear style.








If you run the engine and have the oil scavenge line disconnected from the drip tank, don't forget a nice plastic pan underneath, the flow through the turbo should look like this. That should give you an idea if your getting good flow, bad flow , or overflow.







While the engine is still running put your thumb over the scavenge pump return line to see if you can feel good suction. If you have suction you can stick the line in your pan of dripping oil and see if the pump adequatly evacuates the oil. I would also disconnect the line from the scavenge pump and run something like a coat hanger through it to clear it and the rinse thoroughly with a spray can of engine degreaser.

Let us know what you find.

Cole
Old 06-17-2011, 06:31 AM
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