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Excellent insight as always, gentz. Good to know on the spring plate resale, that helps.

Yes Pat, "frozen" was exactly what this race shop told me.

I wouldn't at all be surprised tho unfortunately if my suspicion proved correct that they didn't want to work too hard on that challenge - just wanted to do a CB/align and send me on my way - or - sell me some $$$ parts creating more work for them. Kindasorta sadly their MO.

OK, armed w/ enough info to be dangerous... I'll set about this endeavor. Honey, cover the kids' ears - the profanity train's a-comin!
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-05-2014, 06:56 AM
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HEY NOW!!!

We don't joke about FIRE 'round these here parts no more!!! That shiit ain't funny.

But if we did... it'd more likely be this coming from me:



I'm that awesome remember - never forget.
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-05-2014, 07:01 AM
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A good race shop can spend 4-8 hrs setting a suspension up. You change something in the back, and it affects the front. You make the changes, put the car on the ground, roll it back and forth a few times to settle the suspension( this is where having the Smart Strings really comes into play), add in a couple of wtf's, and have at it again. It just takes time.
If you don't want to do the work yourself, I'd find a shop that does Porsche racecar setup and have them do it, they know what they're in for. The procedure is the same, just not as radical.

If your in the "more time than money camp" (I'm a member), get the 911 alignment. pdf, make up a Smart String set up and get some type of camber gauge and have at it. If it's a street car, corner balancing isn't necessary.

I bought a cheap wrench, used my trusty grinder to thin it down to the right thickness. After I've done suspension work I go drive it around, put it back on the lift, re check the camber, and re-check all the bolts.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:03 AM
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The only drawback to the adjustable spring plates is less room in the wheel well.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:07 AM
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Thanks Harold - that's defffffffffffinitely me too. Problem is I'm more time than skillz 8-/.

I'll give that .pdf a look - got a link or could you email to me? s8editor at s-cars dot org

Will these "Sway Away" units work? Seem to be clones of the Welt's? Or are the Welt's better somehow?

Porsche 911 Adj Spring Plates New Bushings Sway A Way | eBay

Assuming these aren't Turbo specific, just G50 or not G50? Hence why Welt's site said these wouldn't work on my '87? Just a guess...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-05-2014, 07:24 AM
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Weltmiester and sway away spring plates are the same thing.
Mine said sway away on them and thats a good price for them but those red urethane bushings have a ton of stiction making them hard to move up and down.

Put in the elephant racing polybronze spring plate bushings made for the sway away springplates ($335 when i bought them) and they move freely up and down, come with grease fittings, and don't flex like rubber and change alighnment when cornering.
Old 03-05-2014, 07:37 AM
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Paul,
I sent you the pdf twice. Not sure the first one is complete.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:47 AM
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Got one email from you Harold, 12pg'er - looks complete. Thanks hugely, very cool of you.

Awesome Jim... appreciate that confirmation. I suspected as much but wanted to confirm. Again, assuming these aren't Turbo specific and these are the right ones.

$322.74 shipped... done. Schwing!

Polybronze... um... baby steps... baby steps. Maybe next year. Will deal w/ the stiff squeaky inferior bits fer now.

Feeling entiiiiiiiiiirely better about my 18s right now!! Ranchoness was a maaaaajor thorn in me arse... not that mine was terrible, but the lower profile tires were definitely going to make it pronounced and that'd have bugged me to no end.

Again, thanks all for the handholding (awwwww, isn't that sweet?)... stay tooned for install debacles surely to ensue (ain't easy bein me)...
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-05-2014, 08:35 AM
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Yeh, there is NO WAY IN CREATION you are going to retain your alignment OR corner balance...period. Unfortunatly you will need to pay for all of that again, end of story.

That being said, it really is not difficult to do the spline shuffle...lots of trial-n-error, you will need to be able to have the car on the ground after each "adjustment", as you need to bounch the car & roll it back-n0forth after each adjustment in order to settle the suspension.
Even then the car will settle once driven on the street.

Best of luck.

Mark
Old 03-05-2014, 09:16 AM
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i highly recomend marking your starting position on e spring plate with a magic marker before changing anything. you may be able to get the adjustment you need just by adjusting the bolts and plate without changing the torsion bar position.

if you are going to adjust the bars i also highly recommend taking an angle measurement on the springplate and write it down, then make measured adjustments.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:01 AM
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duly noted John, armed w/ Harold's .pdf instruction file I hope to at least par to a scratch alignment then schedule the CB/align later in the spring or so

yes Mark, I'm done deluding mesself 8-)
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-05-2014, 11:19 AM
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OE plates sold via classifieds, 1:22min, $140 shipped 8-)
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-05-2014, 11:43 AM
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JFairman:

How hard was it to do the monoball on the banana arm? I am about to embark on a full 935 suspension on my car and this is one piece I am replacing.

I haven't seen much in the way of replacing the trailing arm bushing. I'm assuming the pain in life involves getting the old one out - with the monoball not being to hard to go back in?

Chris.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:58 AM
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It's not hard, I did it without removing the emergency brake cables or the trailing arms from the car while the back end was up on jackstands... just like how I'm currently rebuilding the entire top end of my motor with the motor in the car and lowered down a foot on to a jackstand in my driveway.. Lots of crawling around on your side under the car.

There are good instructions for replacing trailing arm, springplate, or any other suspension bushings with pictures on the elephant racing website. They may be in PDF format or maybe they're plain old html format I don't remember but they are there... just find them and click on them.

I installed sealed rennline monoballs front and rear but installing them is the same. Also installed elephant racing polybronze bushings in the springplates and front control arms. Made a nice difference. Car rides smoother with sharper steering response. I do my own corner balance and alignments too.
Old 03-05-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infraredcalvin View Post
Hope I don't get busted for posting this:


1: jack up rear and place on jack stands, be sure you are not using the torsion bar covers as the jack stand support point.
2: remove tire
3: remove 4 bolts (30,31) from cover watch our for falling spacers (32)
(this is where mine is a little different because I have the early one piece style spring plates, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
4: remove bolts/nuts washer (18,19,20,17)
(now I'm assuming that the top piece of 16 will wiggle off to expose the torsion bar - otherwise you remove all the adjustment bolts, therefore bugger up your alignment and CB- someone again please chime in, on mine you remove the whole spring plate (16) as it's only one piece)
5: grab Torsion Bar (28) with tips of fingers and with super human strength (just in the tips mind you) pull out the TB until splines disengage from inner splines.

Someone please verify my steps 4 & 5...
So I decided to tackle this today. Bolts 18 and 19 above are total buggers to get off. Do I have to? Can I just remove the 4 bolts pictured below with green and red arrows and take the whole radius arm off, or is it a much better idea to find a way to get 18 and 19 off? Car is on jackstands and my appt for an alignment is the 18th, so I have to get this done before then. Any help appreciated!



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Old 03-09-2014, 04:05 PM
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Hey Jeff-

Na mon, those stay on

careful, my bars popped out w/my plates

had to drill & pop out the end caps, and tap the bars through - not terribly hard, just an added step

cut off / melt off the bushings while you're in there and go w/ new ones

w/ my bars dangling I'm now toying w/ the thought of going stiffer - seems silly to CB & align again and install the OE bars, only to maybe / possibly have to do it again down the road when / if I upgrade

dunno yet

good luck w/ yours
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Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-09-2014, 04:12 PM
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The bolts at the green arrows are for camber & toe adjustment, You don't need to remove them. Just removing the bolts at the red & yellow arrows will work. You will need to get the the bolts at the green arrows loose to readjust the suspension. Don't forget to mark everything before you remove it.
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Old 03-09-2014, 04:14 PM
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Thanks for the clarification. Yellow arrows are off already and the red ones are loosened, so I will be able to get them off no problem.

Paul, I have read not to replace that bushing if it isnt necessary because the replacement one isn't as good. What is your reason for saying to replace it? I dont want to make a mistake there.

Now, this paragraph is out of the Pelican tech article for removing the TB's:
Before you remove any of the bolts that hold the radius arm to the trailing arm, lower the trailing arm until the tension from the torsion bar exerted on the radius arm decreases. There should be a point to where radius arm can be lowered, where the torsion bar will not exert any force on it. At this point, all of the spring will be taken out of the torsion bar so that there is no tension at all on the trailing arm/radius arm assembly. You may have to use trial and error, and raise and lower the rear trailing arm a few times to find the right height where there will be no tension from the torsion bar. Itís important to relieve any tension on the radius arm before you disconnect the bolts that attach it to the trailing arm. Otherwise, the radius arm may spring back violently when you remove the last bolt that attaches it to the trailing arm.
Pelican Technical Article: Replacing/Upgrading Torsion Bars - 911 (1965-89) - 930 Turbo (1975-89)


I know what they are saying, but I have no idea how I am going to know if the TB is unsprung or not until I remove all the bolts. Any helpful hints? Do I need to diconnect the shock from the trailing arm to do this?
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Old 03-09-2014, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
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Paul,
I sent you the pdf twice. Not sure the first one is complete.
Harold, what is in the pdf? I am getting ready to lower the rear on my 87 slant.
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Old 03-09-2014, 06:18 PM
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Jeff,

Yours is an early 911 correct? Regardless, you have the earlier 1 piece spring plates, you need to remove the camber and toe bolts (green arrows). You'll also want to be sure the suspension/ torsion fully unloaded or you'll chew up the threads on the bolts...

Remove the shock, fully extend the trailing arm, and let the spring come to rest (most likely on one of the spacers where the yellow bolts mount. Mark the angle of the spring plate on the inner wheel well with a pencil or something similar. You should be able to wiggle off the spring plate at this point. Doesn't have to be super exact, but get it close. When you rotate splines the new angle is much different that you'll notice.

As for the bushing, you'll probably see that it's pretty worn and all squished to one side, they are bonded to the trailing arm while new ones are not, so there are some arguments as to what is the better program. Regardless, if they are original the replacements will be better than what you have, you will see when you look at them.
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Last edited by infraredcalvin; 03-09-2014 at 09:06 PM..
Old 03-09-2014, 08:52 PM
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