Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 / 930 Turbo & Super Charging Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Large Member
 
krasuskyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: top of 3rd
Posts: 4,138
Garage
Request: Rear Torsion Bars - Remedial Re-indexing 101 for Dummies

As winter wanes and spring teases us, my POS inches closer toward touching ground (still a solid and depressing 4-6wks off). The thought of which is both titillating and terrifying, simultaneous.

Giddification @ the prospect of seeing & running all my Winter While You're In There* maniacism in action.

*(There being the kerofume'd GARAGE all fookin winter - wut braincellz?)

Frightening to finally lay witness upon egg zachary what I have done. Lost in a daze of Pelican Classified binge surfing and Pelican Horse Trading (don't ask, I've been on a delirious petrol filled rampage - cabin fever I s'pose?), I'm recalling my rear suspension still somewhat ala Rancho after my '09 corner balance / alignment job @ Musante (then there's the fact of "will the 255's rub / is front fender rolling in mah future??? Lalalalalala>fingersinears<not going there yet).

Story at the time went "yeah the weights came out great but your ride height in the rear didn't change much - everything was too frozen to feck with... you can fix it by throwing your kids' pittance-esque college accounts at the problem by buying all our shinyneubits and we'll be allllll tooooo happpppy to play Bob as your Uncle". Something like that at least.

So... present day... my heap resides hovering upon jackstands, each day a new hurdle won. Finally removed front hubs last night and pounded out / in longer studs (that was - um - 'fun') and got to test hang the wheels. Rears studs pounded out, rotors 'n ebrakes apart (so THAT's what that rubbing was back there... little ebrake shoe pube spring sprung off), ready to re-ASSemble.

Which brings me to tomorrow's quandary: the prospect of running all this uberness (should Spring ever opt to do such here in sunny CT) @ Rancho rear height elicits fears of fender gap'age... exacerbated by Ronnieapproved 295/35/18s.

Reallyreally old pics for reference from 100000yr ago CB / lowering day after, as all posts should - well - have pics:




Not terrible, but...

So - I've searched and read re-index'ing the rear bars results in the desired effect - AND - without muff'in the corner balance specs. Wasn't 'zactly relishing prospect of paying for THAT again (chaCHING - pass). So THAT sounds like JUST the ticket!

That said... all the great references of "just clock them 4 splines inner / 4 splines outer" (JimboF!) might as well be typed in like Arabic or Sandscrit or Ebonics or something.

Might someone be so kind as to out stretch a hand and guide my feebleness into ze light and enlighten me proppah? Pics too would be quite the treat! If shop claimed "uh, like, your stuff's like too um frozen and stuff or something"... is this something my Beavisness (or even / more aptly my Buttheadedness) can / should be able to do?

Car's up and 1/2 apart anywayz, what's another ginormous project stacked thickly upon the other 19 simultaneous shiitshows I got goin on right?

Feel free to relegate replies in "See Spot Run" format, riddled with much deserved ridicule and insult. It's encouraged, and appreciated!

Thanks gents.
__________________
Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-04-2014, 06:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,267
Are you trying to lower your car? I doubt you want to raise it. One end of the bar is a little bigger diameter than the other so there's more splines on the bigger diameter end of the bar than the other. I havn't messed with them in years now so I don't remember how many or the ratio.
You'll have to experiment with it.

If you rotate or index only one end of the bar one spline the car will rise or drop more than an inch so you go one spline lower on one end and one spline higher on the other end and because each end is a little different diameter the ride hight changes gradually that way.

To get it where you want it you may end up going one or two splines one way on one end and two or more splines the other way on the other end. It takes time experimenting with it and you have to drive the car a little way to get the wheel cambers to settle out after setting it back down on the ground. I hope that makes sense.
Old 03-04-2014, 06:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,765
Dayum Paul, it's a crying shame you don't still have the above wheel/tire combo on yer car! Does that help (probably about as much as this - )?
Old 03-04-2014, 06:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Large Member
 
krasuskyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: top of 3rd
Posts: 4,138
Garage
Thanks Jim! Sadly, that much I GET! It's the "how to" / "what to" I'm clueless about. Like, step two... remove "xyz" (step 1 obbbbviously being... crack bier). Yes, LOWER - silly - my registration for Dakkar was late, so I won't be RAISING it... this year.

Ronalot... jah... I gazed upon that pic as it posted and semi sorta kinda had that exact sentiment. Sigh. 265 CUMho's... FTMFW. If they'd not nuked them I'd have kept them. Alas... tires for them 9's are going (have gone) by way of the dinosaur... no way I was going back to 245's. Nope.

FikseFuchs are in my future, some day. Nearly had this set sold and would have done exactly that now, but... well... no comment (Ed I knooooooooooow you're reading this you fukking STALKER - prolly outside peerin in mah curtains?).

Alas, I'm embracing running the Fikse's... no exaggeration... they're near p*rnograffix jewelry. Soooooooooooo niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. Just that... ride height has never been so important. Helps take out the cartoonish factor of 18s... set right... that's a non-issue. Rancho highlights it, I'm keenly aware (hence the terrification factor and seekance of how to Use the Force to do this endeavor!).


ps. Ronnie:

__________________
Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-04-2014, 07:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Non User
 
infraredcalvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA
Posts: 1,267
Garage
While I don't agree with the statement that your CB won't change (your rear alignment too) but there are a few things to watch out for... Sometimes the TB can get stuck, rust/corrosion, sometimes they slip out with little effort, one of mine was easy, the other was stuck pretty good. I didn't want to cut the shark fins, so it made it harder to get them out. I ended up lowering mine a tad, then put it back because my driveway has a curb that really doesn't like lowered cars.

Mark where they were originally pretty good so when a stuck one pops out and turns on you you'll be able to set it back where you started for reference. When you pull them check for any rub marks/scratches/rust on the painted bars. Re-lube em up really good and they'll be easy to pop in and out later.
__________________
Infraredcalvin - AKA Pat
'76 Turbo Carrera #311 - Factory LSD, Sport Seats
'75 914 GT clone project
'74 914 track basket-case

Last edited by infraredcalvin; 03-04-2014 at 07:52 PM..
Old 03-04-2014, 07:32 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,267
Oh.. you remove the spring plate to do that. 4 bolts on the spring plate cover. The outer female splines are inside it. while it's removed you can slide out the torsion bar and while it's just touching the inner splines you can feel the splines bump over each other one spline at a time as you carefully rotate it while holding it lightly against the inner splines.
The torsion bars and splines should be smeared with grease so they don't rust.

You can mark a male outer spline with a hammer and center punch. If you do that don't hit the punch real hard or the spline will be widened and it won't want to penetrate and slide into the female splines... and if that does happen you can redress the sides of the male spline with a thin file.
Old 03-04-2014, 07:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Non User
 
infraredcalvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA
Posts: 1,267
Garage
Hope I don't get busted for posting this:


1: jack up rear and place on jack stands, be sure you are not using the torsion bar covers as the jack stand support point.
2: remove tire
3: remove 4 bolts (30,31) from cover watch our for falling spacers (32)
(this is where mine is a little different because I have the early one piece style spring plates, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
4: remove bolts/nuts washer (18,19,20,17)
(now I'm assuming that the top piece of 16 will wiggle off to expose the torsion bar - otherwise you remove all the adjustment bolts, therefore bugger up your alignment and CB- someone again please chime in, on mine you remove the whole spring plate (16) as it's only one piece)
5: grab Torsion Bar (28) with tips of fingers and with super human strength (just in the tips mind you) pull out the TB until splines disengage from inner splines.

Someone please verify my steps 4 & 5...
__________________
Infraredcalvin - AKA Pat
'76 Turbo Carrera #311 - Factory LSD, Sport Seats
'75 914 GT clone project
'74 914 track basket-case

Last edited by infraredcalvin; 03-04-2014 at 11:07 PM..
Old 03-04-2014, 08:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Non User
 
infraredcalvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA
Posts: 1,267
Garage
I forgot to state that in the middle of all that you notice how oblong shaped your 20+ year old bushings are and you head to the ER or RR site to drop more coin...
__________________
Infraredcalvin - AKA Pat
'76 Turbo Carrera #311 - Factory LSD, Sport Seats
'75 914 GT clone project
'74 914 track basket-case
Old 03-04-2014, 08:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,181
According to the tech article on this site, if you are not lowering too much, and you have a later model 911, you dont have to remove the torsion bar:

Pelican Technical Article: Lowering the 911 - 911 (1965-89) - 930 Turbo (1975-89)

If you have a later model 911, then youíre in luck, as you donít have to remove the torsion bar covers and radius arms to get at least some degree of adjustment. On these cars, the radius arms were equipped with an adjustment screw. To raise or lower the rear of the car, simply loosen the large nut and bolt closest to the torsion bar. Then rotate the other bolt located next to it. This bolt is eccentric, and will cause the rear of the car to be raised or lowered as you turn it. Adjust the height as described previously, and then tighten the bolt located nearest to the torsion bar. Make sure that you donít touch the two nuts located towards the rear of the car: these adjust the toe-in and the camber for the rear suspension, and should only be adjusted by a trained professional using an alignment rack.

This seems much easier than removing a stubborn torsion bar, no?
In infraredcalvins diagram, it looks like bolt #18 is the eccentric bolt that does the adjustment.

So my questions are: What is "later model"? I have an 88 and Paul has an 87.
How much can you lower it without removing the torsion bars? I would like to go about an inch lower.
Do I need a bump steer kit if I only lower it about an inch?
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 03-04-2014, 09:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
930T Owner
 
Hams930T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 792
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff NJ View Post
According to the tech article on this site, if you are not lowering too much, and you have a later model 911, you dont have to remove the torsion bar:

Pelican Technical Article: Lowering the 911 - 911 (1965-89) - 930 Turbo (1975-89)

If you have a later model 911, then youíre in luck, as you donít have to remove the torsion bar covers and radius arms to get at least some degree of adjustment. On these cars, the radius arms were equipped with an adjustment screw. To raise or lower the rear of the car, simply loosen the large nut and bolt closest to the torsion bar. Then rotate the other bolt located next to it. This bolt is eccentric, and will cause the rear of the car to be raised or lowered as you turn it. Adjust the height as described previously, and then tighten the bolt located nearest to the torsion bar. Make sure that you donít touch the two nuts located towards the rear of the car: these adjust the toe-in and the camber for the rear suspension, and should only be adjusted by a trained professional using an alignment rack.

This seems much easier than removing a stubborn torsion bar, no?
In infraredcalvins diagram, it looks like bolt #18 is the eccentric bolt that does the adjustment.

So my questions are: What is "later model"? I have an 88 and Paul has an 87.
How much can you lower it without removing the torsion bars? I would like to go about an inch lower.
Do I need a bump steer kit if I only lower it about an inch?

Hi there,

In short - #18 is eccentric and does allow for the height to change. Unfortunately, most cars are already adjusted at the bottom end of the adjustment range. I initially attempted to lower the rear of my car by adjusting the eccentric only to find mine, like many other owners, was bottomed out. I'm not saying yours is, but it is likely to be that way. The eccentric is really more ideal for making minor adjustments once you properly index the torsion bars on the rear for the ride height you want. I have read in various threads regarding the rear setting that it is advisable to set the adjustment range of the eccentric towards the middle of its range when indexing the torsion bar. Once your car's height is set the way you want it, this will give the technician who aligns your car some adjustability on that eccentric to be able to balance out the car.

As for the front adjuster - you can go lower of course but take a look at your tie rods. The ideal angle while sitting on level ground is for the tie rods to be sitting parallel to the ground. If they are angled upwards due to a lowered ride height, this is when you begin to see bump-steer. - A cheap solution is to shim the steering rack upwards using the bump steer kits that are sold through Pelican and other locations. It's not particularly hard to do and the kit is under $30. It's basically thick shims and longer mounting bolts.

Hope this helps.

Chris.
__________________
Hams930T
1986 930
2015 991 GT3
2016 Cayman GT4
2012 911 Cup
Old 03-04-2014, 09:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Jeff NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NW NJ
Posts: 1,181
Thanks Chris. Helps a lot.

I will be doing this and then bringing to the shop for an alignment. (that is, if it ever stops snowing here)

I guess I will see how the tie rods look once I'm done and get the bump steer kit if I need it.
__________________
1988 930 Venetian Blue
Old 03-04-2014, 09:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
gumba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,756
My '79 has stock adjustable spring plates. I had about an inch of height adjustment using the eccentric bolt. Your camber changes as the height does. I don't remember if the toe also changes. If your car was previously corner balanced and you adjusted both rear sides the same then the corner balance, would be close, but the front/rear weight will change.
The Porsche 911 alignment pdf. is a great reference.
After you've finished the back,then you need to check the front as it will be affected.
I made a set of Smart Strings and attached them to the car to check the front & rear toe. Also get a camber gauge. Everything is affected.
__________________
Harold
'79 930/DP935
'68 VW Turbo Crewcab
Old 03-04-2014, 10:05 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rockwall, Texas
Posts: 8,765
Paulito, based on Harold's/gumbs's post above, and on your stated unwillingness to spend the REST of your children's (how did you ever convince anyone to accept your seed - drugs, witchcraft, violence?) future college tuition, might I suggest that you forego the "desperate attempt to make the wagon wheels work" slam-job, and instead, enter your newly shod car in the next Paris Dakar Rally?

PS: thanks for the bird - as you say, always appreciated!

Last edited by Ronnie's.930; 03-04-2014 at 10:47 PM..
Old 03-04-2014, 10:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,267
The 25 year old rubber trailing arm bushings have cold flowed, changed shape a little, and taken a set in their position by now.

When I did this yes I completely removed the spring plate and didn't touch the big ride hight eccentric bolt that needs a super thin open end wrench to access. I marked the position of the bolts that go through the spring plate and trailing arm with a fresh pointed sharpie pen and scribe so they could be put back where they were.

The old rubber trailing arm bushings had a memory and they wanted to position the trailing arms so the spring plate bolts would back where they were in the trailing arms. That made that easier.

Now I have replaced them with monoballs in the trailing arms and elephant racing polybronze bushings in the spring plates so there is no old rubber bushing memory and the rear suspension is much more flexible. I do my own alignments with strings, tape measures and a digital angle gauge..
I also have tarret adjustable rod end rear sway bar drop links and urethane bushings for the sway bar.

Last edited by JFairman; 03-05-2014 at 04:45 AM..
Old 03-05-2014, 04:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Large Member
 
krasuskyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: top of 3rd
Posts: 4,138
Garage
Thanks much for the hand holding so far, gals! Mucho appreciatto.

Is the ride height eccentric bolt Jeff / Chris / Jimbo references #18 in the diagram above?

So, let us ASSume "something" is frozen that the race shop couldn't budge, as either A) things were really frozen, or (more likely?) II) they wanted to sell me some stuff and/or didn't want to be bothered w/ such Tomfoolery (if it were Joefoolery I'm sure they'd have made an exception).

What's frozen? The bar / splines? So... if so... what's the DIY Fecal Touch solution?? Torch the tube and spray the beejeebus out of it best you can??? And then???? (NOANDTHEN!!!!)

I am already bumpsteer'd up front, thanks for the mention tho.

I definitely don't want to slam it, just want to dial in some SQUAT like seemingly evvvvvvvvvvveryyyyyyyyyyone ELSE manage's do rock - as seen har:



DAYUM ^that^ is just sexxxxxxxxxxxxx... >shudders<. I'm tired of my 'rake' and it'll look tits AND nipples w/ the Profil 5 18s... once the proppah ride height is achieved. Despite the ignoramus maximus of, well... you now.



ps. Ronalittle... what can I say? Chics dig me.

OK, realistically my fewlish wife didn't know any better at the time when we got together she was 17 and I was rockin a Westybus. 24yrs later and I've got what my friends refer to as "Devil's Spawn"... which is odd as they are (thankfully) really amazing kids and are nothhhhhhing like I was (is) growing up (shiithead). Phew.
__________________
Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |
Old 03-05-2014, 04:59 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,267
Yes it's #18 and the head is super thin and there's no room for a regular open end there because the chassis is so close to it there. You'll see if you look at it on your car.
Also, if you loosen it you may not tighten it enough afterwards and it will come loose. It takes an extra thin open end to acces it and mechanics I know won't touch it, they adjust ride hight by reindexing torsion bar splines.

Along with all this I have Weltmiester adjustable spring plates so I can adjust rear ride hight or rear corner balance in seconds with an 8mm allen head wrench... it's so nice.
Got them on sale for around $300 from a u t o m o t i o n 6 or 7 years ago and sold the stock springplates quickly on pelican classifieds.
Old 03-05-2014, 05:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Large Member
 
krasuskyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: top of 3rd
Posts: 4,138
Garage
thanks Jimm'er... $375 shipped today

Soooooo... "just" (famous last words) remove mine, slap those on, and dial away? No initial clocking of the tbars required? While sounds too good to be true... it looks like that setscrew just dials that cam... so... giddeup!



Soitenly not worth dickin around the caveman way then, uh uh. Look pretty simple to install, no? (even for me!)

*their site says fitment for '69-'86... "won't fit an '87".... uhhh, guessing that's wrong?*

How fekk'dup will my alignment be after (yeah I know it'll "change" touching anything, but if it can be 'mostly preserved' until $$$ permits an eventual CB/align - that's what I'm ax'in). If I marked things up etc. OK, I know the answer to that question... just sucks to go have to spend that assload of crink on that - again.

Recall what you sold yer bits for? I'm alllll over ze horse trades, fersure...
__________________
Paul... CT | '87 930 | '07 //S6 v10 JNR | '98 ///M3 vert |
past:

| '01 ///M5 | '96 993 C2 cab | '05 S600 Sport - biturbo V12@Just Not Right 495rwhp / 612rwtq |
| '58 TR3A | '01 //S8 | '95 //S6 6gang | '88 ///M5 | '87 190E 2.3-16 |

Last edited by krasuskyp; 03-05-2014 at 05:33 AM..
Old 03-05-2014, 05:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 7,267
When installing the weltmiester spring plates I indexed the splines so there would be a 1/4" gap where the allen bolt is when they are installed at my ride hight. That way I have plenty of adjustment range left.
Use an angle gauge on each spring plate before removing them and when all the bolts are removed and install the new ones at the same free angle.

There is no eccentric cam bolt on the weltmiesters.

I sold my original springplates with the rubber bushings on them for $75. 6 or 7 years ago. I could have gotten more for them, especially these days. I see them sell for around $125 now, maybe a little more if you wait it out.
Old 03-05-2014, 05:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Non User
 
infraredcalvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA
Posts: 1,267
Garage
I'm not quite getting it, but did a shop actually tell you it was frozen?

If you can get one side out you can pound out the other side by inserting a bar (thinner OD than the inner splines) and hammer away. If it is in fact "frozen" it's prob because it's rusted in there which would be advisable to get them out anyway and relube everything. Last thing you want is for them to break while in there. As for getting out a stuck one, you just need to grab on to it and keep working it, leverage with jaws , anything, pound in a bit to break lose , etc.

Removing and replacing the spring plates will really mess up your alignment. Adjustment is with the eccentric bolts 25 & 26 above. It's really hard to mark them and try to get them back where they were.
__________________
Infraredcalvin - AKA Pat
'76 Turbo Carrera #311 - Factory LSD, Sport Seats
'75 914 GT clone project
'74 914 track basket-case
Old 03-05-2014, 05:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Marietta GA
Posts: 2,546
I'm in. I can't wait to see a post like this from Paul.

__________________
1987 GP White 930
1977 Ford Bronco
Old 03-05-2014, 05:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:46 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.