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Anachronistic Anomaly
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That's REALLY great news, Chris!
What's the story with Excellence? Did they approach you about doing an article? Quote:
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IG@ the_derek_whitacre |
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02-25-2009, 12:42 PM
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Location: Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
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Lessee, wait an minute. There really isn't much more to tell, is there?   Oh well, we'll get pretty pics. I'm in for a drive. |
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02-25-2009, 01:29 PM
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Super cool Chris,
Any idea what issue it'll be in ? Peace Kiley |
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02-25-2009, 01:37 PM
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Location: Mulholland Drive
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Excellence
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I received a introductory letter from Mr. Linsky in August of 2007. He said that when he was down in L.A. in the spring of 2007 photographing Dave's 914-6 and talking about Mulholland, he saw Chuck Miller for lunch and Chuck mentioned the Carrera and this thread. They all know each other. Mr. Linsky then read the thread and thought it would be an entertaining tale. A blogger in the group asked if someone from Excellence might ever write about the car (if it has survived and the owner is willing to talk about it). At that point Peter stepped up to the plate to do this article for Excellence. He is very knowledgable and a very nice person to talk to. I really have enjoyed meeting with him and assisting him in getting information on Mulholland. Of course, I am looking forward to the article. It should be out later this year. |
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02-25-2009, 02:26 PM
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Anachronistic Anomaly
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The "Mulholland King of the Hill RSR" thread STRIKES AGAIN!
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IG@ the_derek_whitacre |
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02-25-2009, 02:48 PM
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Location: Malibu
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Mulholland Raceway as defined by GOOGLE
I chuckled when someone sent me this-
A buddy of mine paying homage to the "west" course with his hacking skills http://drivenworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1537 |
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02-25-2009, 09:16 PM
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Location: Mulholland Drive
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The Highway
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Thanks for posting that Mark. I've been watching those guys for several years by checking their website occasionally. You and I have talked about this before. I can see your house by navigating the map. Very cool. It's quite interesting that they re-named Schueren Road Mulholland Raceway. The Gallery in the lateral photography link is done in a professional manner and well highlights Mulholland Highway. Some nice documentation there. Mulholland Highway is a faster, longer, and in some ways safer Racecourse due to the lesser amount of houses and cars. The area must be an awesome place to grow up in. It has beautiful sweeping ridges and valleys filled with grass and oak trees. There are horse farms, lakes like for instance Malibu lake, parks, and a place called the Paramount Ranch which we have discussed before. Nearby in Thousand Oaks there used to be a place called Jungleland where you could see wild animals in natural settings. It was closed after a lion mauled Jayne Mansfield's son during a photo shoot. He rode the Benedict Canyon bus with me. I was the last stop (Mulholland and Java) and he was the first stop (Sunset Blvd. in the middle of "Little Ontario") on the bus route. I saw him on the bus two weeks after the accident and he was all bandaged up, poor guy. Everyone was sympathetic. This was in 6th grade (about 1965). When I was 12 years old, my mom would drive her new '66 Mustang Fastback to Mulholland Highway and let me drive for hours there. It was terrible fun. There were very few houses and no business's, just the rolling hills that were so green in spring and straw-colored in fall, all dotted with oak trees. Amazing beauty! Last edited by Banning; 02-26-2009 at 08:05 AM.. |
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02-26-2009, 07:32 AM
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Location: Malibu
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Chris, no,it's not those poseurs from that webpage-it's a buddy of mine that actually hacked into GOOGLE and altered their map!. Check it out! go to google and type in "MULHOLLAND RACEWAY" and then navigate the compass to see the complete course. Yeah nice to know I'm smack dab in the middle of the action. It's a great loop he has mapped,definitely much faster than east and a hell of a lot less bumpy. The biblical level rains of 06 really compromised the roads. Lots of them,Stunt in particular, will never be the same(as fast) as they used to be due to the massive earth slip from that 50 year rain event. Stunt Rd from about half way up(or down)is similar in dynamics to what east was like back in the day. It still is quite active. I often encounter a skirmish along the way home. It can be like flying razor blades at times-guys on bikes and whole packs of cars bombing up from the supercar show on sundays. In fact up until the last year or so almost nightly there would be cats making runs until the wee hours. Like always,the talent doesn't come with the car(or bike) and there are frequent accidents. CHP had a pretty big crackdown about a year ago and it's been fairly quiet since. It was most definitely as active as east Mul was in our youth. Some of the roads(Schueren,Lower Las Flores) are still single lane due to the slides. The county is just about to shut down upper Schueren to get it back to two lanes again. There will never be the amount of houses like on east-coastal commission has effectively shut down any new home construction in the mountains,no complaints here |
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02-26-2009, 09:23 AM
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That's very funny, thanks for clarifying Mark. Good luck on Stunt.
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02-26-2009, 07:45 PM
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In the shop at Pelican
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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I'm a bit younger than you, but I spent most of my formative years in Thousand Oaks and spent a lot of time driving the same roads, watching them film CHiPs and the Dukes of Hazzard. When I got my license, one of the first things I did was hit Decker Canyon in the 914 1.7 my grandfather left me. (On original 165 tires, blown shocks..) It's a miracle I didnt kill myself. What Mul Drive was to you, Mul Highway was to me. Later on, we had a HELL of a lot of fun down near Pt. Mugu/Portero Road. There used to be drag racing down on those roads in the early mornings. My buddy had a Chevy Nova 2 with a 454 in it. We had too much fun, lol. I remember a Plymouth Satellite with no hood that was basically unbeatable on the long stretches (think he had a 440 in it, can't remember) Was anyone else there that remembers? It's too bad that nearly all of those roads are staked out relentlessly by 5-0 these days. Love the thread! I'd love to see the RSR if I'm up on the hill. Last edited by Jared at Pelican Parts; 02-27-2009 at 05:55 AM.. |
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02-27-2009, 05:49 AM
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Thousand Oaks
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Good stories Jared, thanks for posting. Since you are from Thousand Oaks I thought you and the group might like to see some things from the old Jungleland. But first a bit of history... History - The Beginning Louis Goebel arrived in California in 1919 and began work at Gay's Lion Farm where he was employed in the butchering of animal carcasses for food for the lions. When the lion farm was moved from Hollywood to El Monte, Goebel did not follow. Instead, he obtained work with the animals at Universal Studios, where he plied his trade as meat cutter, feeder, and grounds keeper until 1926. That year, Carl Laemmele, the owner of the studio, decided to dispose of the zoo. Goebel purchased six of the lions: Andy, Min, Bill, Momma, Poppa, and Little Caesar. Goebel was unable to find land in Los Angeles County where he could board the lions, but he was able to obtain cheap land in Thousand Oaks where he built his lion farm. The property eventually amounted to 170 acres. "Goebel's Lion Farm" (later Jungleland), a creation of Louis Goebel, was begun in Thousand Oaks, California, in 1926 and opened to the public in 1929. In 1946, the farm was sold to Trader Horne and Billy Richards. In 1955, James Ruman and Sid Rogel purchased the property. They renamed it the "World Jungle Compound" and in 1956 they sold it to 20th Century Fox. It was again renamed, this time as "Jungleland".Within five years, the property reverted back to Goebel through foreclosure. He then entered into an agreement with Heinz and Ruhe to operate Jungleland. Soon the motion picture industry discovered the Conejo Valley's beauty. Scenes from "Birth of a Nation," "Tarzan," and "The Adventures of Robin Hood" were filmed here. Leo, the MGM lion and Mr. Ed, The Talking Horse were residents of Jungleland, as were many other animal actors, including elephants, zebras, and water buffalo. In addition to supplying Hollywood with beastly talent, Goebel also saw the opportunity in Jungleland: The Amusement Park. Thousand Oaks -- which was once considered to be "out in the boonies" -- now became a tourist destination, where visitors could view wild animals in a zoo-like setting, and be entertained by shows led by some of the best animal trainers of the day... including Mabel Sark, the "world's only lady tiger trainer." "Leaving the S.F. Valley, headed northwest, toward Ventura, you could actually see elephants standing off to the right side of the freeway, at Thousand Oaks--chained by their leg to a giant stake driven into the ground. I guess they chained them out their as some sort of living advertisement for Jungleland. They also had giraffes, zebras, lions (in cages), and other zoo animals." - Local resident History - The Decline *NEW and REVISED (June 2006) Unfortunately, Goebel could not keep up with the growing popularity of larger scale amusements parks -- like Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farm, Universal Studios and Busch Gardens -- which were sprouting up all over Southern California. So business declined sharply in the mid-1960s. Some say that the nail in the coffin of Jungleland was whenJayne Mansfeild held a birthday party for her 6 year old son, "Zoltan" at the park. Zoltan was mauled by a lion that day. The truth is that while the attack did slow business for awhile, the park was already struggling to stay open and would have closed regardless. (Zoltan did survive the attack and Mansfield later credited his recovery to a theatrical ritual performed by Church of Satan founder Anton LaVey, atop Mt. Tamalpais in Mill Valley, CA. The final owners and the last days - In approx. 1965 Jungleland changed hands and the new owners would continue to run the park until the final days. Marie Grube (one of the new owners) recounts the events...."I believe it was in l965 that Roy Kabat, Marie Kabat (now Marie Grube ), John Janelli Sr., Tex and Ina Scarbrough entered into a legal agreement with Louis Goebel for a lease with an option to buy Jungleland. We took over the complete operation of the Park and ran it until we could find buyers for the land. The business end of it was waning because of its location and the condition of the park, which needed a complete overhaul. Because of the times and development of the town itself, this wasn't practical. Our selling the property seemed to be our only option to get our investment out of it. The terms for the sale set by Louis Gobel were hard to meet, and the city of Thousand Oaks made it impossible for us to execute a sale, as the city refused to give any buyer a conditional use commitment for the property. We had three qualified buyers lined up and lost the sale because of this. The monies that would have to be put up were not refundable and no one would take that gamble. So in the end we had to let everything go back to Louis Gobel. The final auction was held in Oct. 1969 and Gobel found that he could not meet the taxes on this property (I suppose the city still made it too difficult for him to sell). So the property sat idle for a few years until the city decided they could use it for a Cultural Center". Another misconception was that the new owners had a disliking for Mabel Stark and had in fact fired Stark upon taking over the park; This is not true. The real reason Stark was let go was due to insurance. (Stark's life story is quite remarkable in itself. "Mabel Stark was very much a friend of all of us, and much admired. It was a sad day when our Insurance Company informed us that they could not insure the Park because of her act. Mabel pleaded with the Insurance Company saying that she would sign a waiver exempting Jungleland and would hold us harmless from anything that might happen to her. Her wish that she would die in the ring didn't help the situation either. When we had to ban her from using her act she left with much remorse. Shortly thereafter she committed suicide. This was a very sad ending for such a great lady of her day". - Marie Grube The park closed its doors for good in October of 1969. This was reported by Walter Cronkite on the CBS Evening News on October 8'th, 1969. It was reported again by David Brinkley on the NBC Evening News on October 9'th, 1969. All of the animals housed at the parks were sold at auction. We have uncovered the actual news clips which ran on CBS and NBC, documenting the final Jungleland auction after closure of the park. These ran on Oct. 8 and Oct. 9, 1969. The audio is *horrible* (to say the least), but you can still make it out. Animal Legends "Leo" the MGM Lion is buried on the former Jungleland property, where the Thousand Oaks Civic Arts Plaza now stands. During the 1960s, a black panther escaped from Jungleland and fled into the surrounding hills and open space of Thousand Oaks. Long-time residents of Newbury Park can remember hearing the panther's roars from the Los Robles Hills. The Newbury Park High School "Panthers" took their name and moniker from this escaped cat. Neither the panther, nor it's remains were ever found. OG Tribe member, Frank Still recalls: When I was a little kid, we lived on Montgomery Road in Thousand Oaks. I used to play in the large field which still borders this neighborhood, between Janss Road, Avenida de Los Flores and the 23 Freeway. When the cat escaped, I was not allowed to play in this field for quite awhile. History - The Future It is amazing how long the City of Thousand Oaks let Jungleland sit vacant (1969 - 1984). Not only was the skating scene very heavy, the Sunday jamborees ricketed with illegal activity, the parking lot used as the "party" meeting place every Friday and Saturday night by local teenagers, but the whole place was right in the middle of Thousand Oaks Blvd, IE Main St., and was a huge eyesore (beautiful yes but not to the majority of residents). I dug up a few postcards that my mom bought for me when we visited there.     This is the jungle bus that would take you around the park. Does anyone here remember? If not, how about Marineland? Another great place that is long gone. 
Last edited by Banning; 02-27-2009 at 10:58 AM.. |
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02-27-2009, 10:54 AM
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In the shop at Pelican
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Jungleland was long gone by the time I was born. However, the land was empty for YEARS. They used to have battles of the bands there for a while before Ventura County Sheriff shut that down. (gotta keep the land values up and all...) Typical teenager stuff. Across the street was the local pool hall as well. Lots of stories of kids being stupid, drag races on 1000 Oaks Blvd. (how the hell did we get away with that?) We'd all heard the stories about the escaped lions/panthers/tigers that were living in the hills years after they escaped.
It cracks me up everytime I drive by it now. The Civic Arts Plaza sits where jungleland once was along with another "promenade" Anyone from TO will know what Im talking about when they see the "conceptual art" on the outside of the building. Looks like a giant fridge coil, lol. Thousand Oaks was a great place to grow up prior to the white flight and suburban housing booms. We rode dirt bikes EVERYWHERE, rode bicycles, built dirt tracks, never locked our doors. rode horses through Wildwood Park. (which must have some sort of contamination from sewage because it stinks to high hell down there) Thousand Oaks was horse country/people. Kinda sad, really. Used to be quite beautiful there. Now it's turning into the valley west. Anybody remember Tarantula Hill? edit: I remember Marineland quite well. Fun times! Last edited by Jared at Pelican Parts; 02-27-2009 at 11:14 AM.. |
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02-27-2009, 11:05 AM
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Jungleland was a decent venue for parking lot slaloms in the 70's. We had to have T/O police present during the event.
Timing was one lap on and off . So you would get back in line and run a total of 3 times. Somehow this was supposed to sate our enthusiasm for playing with cars. Sure it was decent competing against friends or class rivals, but being spoiled by the surrounding curves and twisties found in the hills , the Mul regulars didn't go far enough to chase championships. We managed to turn these events into excuses to go chase each other in the hills either before or after
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1970 914-6 street"evil cockaroach" 1970 911 Targa "ST" Jade Green IROC Tribute (ready to race) |
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02-27-2009, 12:06 PM
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Formerly bb80sc
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hollywood Beach, CA
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This thread is amazing. The history discussed here is amazing! Never realized how much is literally in my 'back yard'....
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Cheers -Brad 2015 Cayman GTS 2015 4Runner Limited |
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02-27-2009, 03:59 PM
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Slalom?
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It was exciting just hearing you tell about it. Was it a POC or some other club event? You are a wealth of information as always. Danke. |
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02-27-2009, 04:17 PM
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I'm re-reading this thread, but I'm only at P. 10 (of 237!). So, if this has been covered somewhere, I apologize.
In anticipation of seeing the KOTH RSR in its native habitat, I drove Mulholland this afternoon from Sepulveda to Laurel Canyon and back. Man, the road surface is crap! Especially from Sepulveda to Coldwater. Not to mention way too much traffic to even consider any "play" time. I haven't driven that section for years (I live near the eastern terminus of the western part of Mulholland (Topanga Canyon) and usually head out that way for any canyon runs. My car is pretty well set up for auto-cross (thanks, Dave  ) and I thought it was going to shake my teeth out on the western part. As a badge carrying member of the GPBS (Griffith Park Backside Sliders), from 1969 through the early eighties, I often rode my motorcycle through the race course portion with that pack of maniacs. Usually on Sunday mornings after terrorizing Mount Hollywood Drive up to the Griffith Park observatory, we'd head out over Mulholland to the Rock Store and beyond (when not heading up Angeles Crest). Anyway, the race track portion was in far, far better condition way back then. We never really encountered the car guys since you seemed to run mostly at night, although I do recall a guy in a black 928 that could really hustle that thing through the turns. I could have passed him on the "straights" (Suzuki 750) but I was terrified he'd be back on my tail in the twisties. So, anyway, I'd love to know about the set up (spring/torsion rates, sways and shocks) on the KOTH RSR. If Chris can tackle this part of the road at a pace anything like the old days, it must have very special suspension.
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02-27-2009, 06:37 PM
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Suspension bumps
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The body is light, dipped in acid for a week to remove over 350 pounds of insulatiion, schutz body sound deadener, and some body steel. Rear, rear-side, and wind wing glass replaced with Lexan glass for lightness. Any compromise in body durability is compensated by the very special integral roll cage/tubular chassis. . The body is very stiff. full seam welded right over the spot welds, with a special 14 point aluminum roll cage that re-strengthens the body to STIFF. Roll Cage by John Mason Engineering. Full seam welding, slant roof, and steel RSR fenders by Don, and Arnie Verbieson. Konis were considerd the best so the car has double adjustable racing Koni shocks. They are adjustable not only for drop but for bounce also with external knobs. The shock shafts have been cut and re-threaded to accomodate the lowness of the car. Machine work done by Macafee-Mackense Eng. Both the front and the rear shock towers have RSR shock tower bracing. The rear shock tower brace has fluted round holes for strength and lightness. Work done by John Mason Engineering. Suspension bushings have been replaced with Delrin solid bushings to eliminate suspension geometry changes at high speed in hard corners. Work done by Bozzani Porsche Racing Division. The rear trailing arms have been RSR triangular gusseted to make them super tough. Bottom Shock mounts have been gusseted with large steel side tangs for strength. Work done by John Mason Engineering. RSR Torsion Bars installed front and rear by Bozzani Porsche Racing Division. "Sport" anti-sway bars installed by Bozzani Porsche Racing Division. Lightened Carrera 6 brakes, vented and cross-drilled with alloy calipers and stainless steel brake lines throughout with Porsche Fuchs Racing Wheels 9x15 and 11x15. The car handles well. The pairing of a very low unsprung weight with an extremely light and stiff chassis makes for a great combination for floating over the bumps of Mulholland. However the bumps are so bad now that it just makes sense to memorize where they are and drive to avoid them. There's no point in thrashing your car. Last edited by Banning; 02-27-2009 at 07:55 PM.. |
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02-27-2009, 07:25 PM
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Run smooth, run fast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,447
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Chris, with the worsening of the bumps, have you considered backing off a bit on the rear shock settings, or is it still best... all things considered... to leave everything as tight as possible?
I guess I'm wondering if that would help optimize handling in sections where it would improve speeds by not having to drive a bad line to avoid a bump... or series of bumps. However, if you're talking about extremely severe bumps, of course they should be avoided completely.
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- John "We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline." |
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02-27-2009, 09:35 PM
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Driver
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1987 Venetian Blue (looks like grey) 930 Coupe 1990 Black 964 C2 Targa |
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02-28-2009, 06:25 AM
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How tight is tight?
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It needs to be reported that the first couple of times the car was driven after sitting for over 15 years, the Konis were rediculously stiff. My internal organs and teeth fillings had to be checked after the first Mulholland ride to be sure they didn't fall out. The front right shock made a banging noise until it loosened up after 3 drives. That in particular didn't inspire confidence. The Konis are set on a medium setting both for bounce and rebound and they are softening up with each drive. New tires made a big difference. Now it doesn't feel like you are driving on concrete wheels and tires. Instead the ride is less harsh. The bumps should smooth out better now, at least the small ones. The big ones are damaging, especially when the drop exceeds your ground clearance.  Warning: when they repaved European Straight recently, they left the man hole cover located on the east portion of westbound lanes at the original lower space with a small circular birm around it. This has created a hole, stay to the right and there will be no problem. I already dropped the Carrera into the hole and it sounded like a bomb went off inside the cabin. Needless to say, I cussed furiously for the next 4 seconds. |
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02-28-2009, 07:04 AM
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