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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidybuoy View Post
The fuel crisis is a crisis - but I don't see how Bush can cure it. The problem is much bigger than one person.
Did you not read Normy's rant on the first page? He said, "If the MORON dubya bush were to say today"I'm thinking about instituting price controls on gasoline: It will be $3.50 tomorrow"". And BAM, just like that gas prices will hit their new mark. That is how some people think that Bush can cure it. Next thing you know though, refineries will start shutting down as they can no longer afford to take a loss on every gallon they sell here. We will see gas shortages like never before as every country that can afford to buy crude oil at $120 will get all they want. We can sit back and watch our domestic supply feed other countries who are willing to pay more than our locked in price.

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Old 06-09-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonic dB View Post
wow...he really said that?? and that is the response that our "President" should have? I think not... we can do much better than him. Pathetic person, terrible president. Worst president in history by far... period.
Again, taken out of context....He was asked by a reporter "now that gas has hit $4.00 a gal....." his response was "$4.00 a gal...I hadn't heard that" Now, if he has said that today - that's a problem....but he said is many months ago when gas had not hit $4.00 a gal. ans was closer to $3 than $4.

It amazes me how the media works so well to spread gibberish. I watched the speech - did you? or did you "just" hear about it.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:15 PM
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Imagine being a typical red-state double Bush-voter right now who lives in some suburb 20-30 miles from work in a city and drives a Suburban w/ a yellow ribbon magnet plus owns a ski boat and a bunch of wave runners and snowmobiles.

Imagine having actually believed all of the lies and cooked intel that painted Iraq as a grave threat to U.S. security after 9/11, and then trusted the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld machine to invade the country and handle it like pros w/ our tax dollars and young people in uniform.

Imagine believing that their lazze-faire approach to nearly every problem and policy issue, including diplomacy and the U.S. economy would even preserve the way of life we had, (much less improve it). The private contractor war staffed by employees of big campaign contributors, the failures in every possible area of security, (borders, terrorist attacks on U.S. soil and abroad, etc.).

Then imagine having to try to defend the coksucker on internet boards and around the water cooler. I can't imagine.
If you gave me a choice of Bush vs Kerry or Gore again, today....i'd vote for Bush a 3rd time.

In a contest between Bush vs Obama, or Bush vs Billary, i'd vote Bush as well.

We weren't voting for Bush, we were voting against the Democrats.

BTW: The US military started using all the contractors during the years when Clinton cut the defense budget to the bone, then cut it again just to make sure...
Old 06-09-2008, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonic dB View Post
wow...he really said that?? and that is the response that our "President" should have? I think not... we can do much better than him. Pathetic person, terrible president. Worst president in history by far... period.
Not even remotely close.

LBJ was orders of magnitude worse for many many reasons.
Old 06-09-2008, 06:22 PM
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if it's a crisis & there are shortages, why aren't there lines like in the early 70's?
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckterrier View Post
if it's a crisis & there are shortages, why aren't there lines like in the early 70's?
There is no shortage. But if we get price controls, there will be shortages overnight. Sometimes I wish it would happen just to prove to the idiots who want controls what it would get us. Why in the world would any gas station bother to sell gas for less than it cost them to replace it? Since the price of oil is not decided in the U.S., price controls would just mean no one sells to us. Why would Canada, our largest supplier, sell to us for less than they could get elsewhere?
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:30 PM
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Because it would make the liberals feel good, and that's what liberals want most of all, afterall.

For them, it's all about the warm and fuzzy feeling they get inside when they think they're doing well for themselves and others. Nevermind what the rest of us want, the far left knows best!
Old 06-09-2008, 06:35 PM
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I wasnt around when LBJ was Pres... though I have heard some of his taped private recordings and phone calls...he comes off as a Texas strong-armed, manipulator politico type who was only interested in covering his own ass.... he seemed out of touch with the responsibilities of the office, and by the end when he announced that he wouldnt seek another term, he seemed like a beaten, defeated man... he also died about a year later.

hmm.. some parallels there to the current guy.

Quote:
Bush and Cheney never were conservatives, they're corporatists who smirk a lot. They pandered to conservatives in order to get elected with tax breaks that heavily favor the wealthy and anti-regulation stance for business, but they haven't "conserved" anything. Not jobs, not our standard of living and certainly not our place in the world economically or our future.

Like typical crooked corporate CEOs who loot companies for the personal gain of themselves and their rich shareholder friends, they took over the richest, most successful country in the history of the world at a time of great prosperity and proceeded to dismantle its assets like the mobsters in Goodfellas or The Sopranos do when they take over a restaurant or sporting goods store. Instead of taking a match to it, they'll simply walk away and leave the keys on the desk in Jan. '09. The Iraq war combined with a tax cut has been the single most irresponsible stewardship of the U.S. economy ever. It's run up record-smashing deficits that have murdered the dollar against foreign currencies and created the oil price/commodities boom. When you combine the out-of-control and possibly illegal speculating and price-fixing with their corrupt, worthless DOJ that could not find their dicks with both hands, it's party time down in Texas! Yahoo!! Viva Bush!

The deficit/weak dollar/oil price speculative boom will murder the golden goose that was the U.S. economy and it will take the rest of the world down with it. Combine the Iraq occupation that truly is the definition of a quagmire, (no foreseeable end-game), and do not forget the price of Iraq will grow with the cost of millions of gallons of diesel and jet fuel that is wasted on a daily basis there. Oh yeah, that's been going on for years. But the beaten-down U.S. worker/tax payer is going to get a new bill that reflects the price increase for diesel. It's $5+ a gallon now, was ~$1.00 when war started. Isn't that ironic? Don't worry, we're borrowing the $$ from the Chinese and Halliburton will be happy with the *cost plus* no-bid contract to sell us the oil/fuel. The higher the price goes, the more they make. So everyone is happy, right?

Being drawn and quartered down in Texas would be way too good for these guys. As mobsters you have to hand it to them, though. They make all of the other ones in history look like pishers.
well stated...I like your mafia analogy
Old 06-09-2008, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tidybuoy View Post
Again, taken out of context....He was asked by a reporter "now that gas has hit $4.00 a gal....." his response was "$4.00 a gal...I hadn't heard that" Now, if he has said that today - that's a problem....but he said is many months ago when gas had not hit $4.00 a gal. ans was closer to $3 than $4.

It amazes me how the media works so well to spread gibberish. I watched the speech - did you? or did you "just" hear about it.
BULL*****!!

Unleaded premium was over $4.00 @ gallon in CA. when he said it. I remember thinking what an ass hole he was. He really acted like he doesn't see the connection between record deficits, a worthless dollar and endless clusterfuch war that he started, (and has no idea how to end), in the ME causing economic calamity. If he had an ounce of class he'd kill himself. But of course, he doesn't.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by m21sniper View Post
If you gave me a choice of Bush vs Kerry or Gore again, today....i'd vote for Bush a 3rd time.

In a contest between Bush vs Obama, or Bush vs Billary, i'd vote Bush as well.

We weren't voting for Bush, we were voting against the Democrats.

BTW: The US military started using all the contractors during the years when Clinton cut the defense budget to the bone, then cut it again just to make sure...
You're insane. Bozo the clown with Ellen Degeneres as VP and Michael Moore running DOJ would have been better than these ass-pirates.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:13 PM
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Oil deregulation was started under Carter, accelerated under Reagan. It's not like we haven't had it before.


i suspect most of the Bush supporters here are getting Defense Dept money and are in fear of losing the Contracts if Obama is elected. McCain himself has said that Eisenhower was right.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by speeder View Post
BULL*****!!

Unleaded premium was over $4.00 @ gallon in CA. when he said it. I remember thinking what an ass hole he was. He really acted like he doesn't see the connection between record deficits, a worthless dollar and endless clusterfuch war that he started, (and has no idea how to end), in the ME causing economic calamity. If he had an ounce of class he'd kill himself. But of course, he doesn't.
We may be talking semantics here.

At the time of the speech, I lived (and still do) live in Fresno, Ca which currently is listed as having the highest gas prices in the state. At the time of the speech, regular unleaded was under $4 (well under). Whenever fuel prices are discussed in the news, they quote the average as measured by AAA and they just hit $4 a couple of weeks ago - if that (avg for Regular un-leaded).

There are probably a few obscure stations that may be charging more - like Big Sur California, which is nothing more than highway robbery as the next station is very far away. (for those not familiar with California).

I'll try and do some research and get the date of the speech and the official fuel prices of that date.

My point was that the reporter has started with "now that gas has hit $4....and Bush simply stated "The've hit $4, I hadn't heard that." He did not act surprised, he simply made that statement and then proceded to answer the question.....which was?? nobody knows because the news only focuses on dirt.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:29 PM
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That national average for 87 octane is about 50 to 75 cents low for 91 octane in L.A. (What I burn). 91 is ~$4.80 @ gallon now and the "official national average" just crested $4.00. Where are all these cheap gas places?? I drove 7k miles around the U.S. last summer and didn't see any of them. Chicago has the most expensive gas in the U.S., BTW.

I apologise for blowing up on you there, this is a sore subject for me. (And a lot of others). Oil men from Texas in the WH and oil prices go ballistic. What a coincidence.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:45 PM
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Speaking of the Texas energy mafia, let's not forget the not-too-distant California blackouts with the distributors demanding 7x normal rates, and state-backed advance deposits.
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procon;3993107

If we "were" in a "post war" recession rather than fighting a war while in a recession, this might hold water.

I honestly don't see the logic here, apples to oranges.

greetings...

the author caught my attention with his view.

I don't think anyone can read the future so all capitalist options are on the table imo. Blaming politics for being a formal cause of short term high gas prices feeds the emotional few with a channel to slam the Rep's and Bush. It dumbs down the issue. That we don't have a serious energy policy is as much the voters fault as it is the government's.

I believe the author's "post war" wording relates to capitalism's development after WW2. Before that socialism's model was an effective option instead of capitalism. Between 1900 and WW2 many capitalist models suffered severe disruptions. This created an atmosphere where socialism had some of its legitimate features politicized and accepted.

The author explains in simple language capitalism's past market routine relating to oil. He discounts the mid east and oil traders.

To call today's situations "war" and "recession" should include the context as an explain. That's another story when all he's doing is discussing capitalist markets self correcting when allowed to perform. It's what markets do.

When I see mass media hype being widely accepted without question I say "good". Markets have a way of turning the many into food for the few. An effective market expands like a blob. The blob develops feet that stick out from the body and are either seen or hidden by money men. These high powered feet are either used for a financial gain or they're not.

the volitale oil market is being used by the traders to reap big incomes.. that's life.


the real issue going on right now is inflation and capital preservation. All the rest is noise.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:00 PM
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So Ronnie, how do we get back to an economic model where workers have actual buying power w/ their earnings and a high standard of living? Not talking about shrewd investors who grow rich in schitty times, but regular hard-working people. And FWIW, no, I'm not a socialist.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:37 PM
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So Ronnie, how do we get back to an economic model where workers have actual buying power w/ their earnings and a high standard of living?


on a basic level inflation destroys the common man's capital.

Monetizing gov't debt should be nick named gov't theft. It's not even an issue to give some idea of this successful scam.

Hard US $ must be at the basis or business doesn't take our economy as serious as it should. The inflation wild card disrupts risk taking and investment decisions. Making decisions based around inflation leads to low levels of growth.

until that happens inflation protection should be on everyone's mind. One reason it's not is the faulty gov't inflation #'s. I'm comfortable with taking their #'s and multiplying them by 2.5-3. If they say 3% then figure 7-9%. Pretty scary if you buy into that explain.


the subservient worker will only increase his wealth when the economy is expanding and job creation is significant. The "top down" or "water flows downhill" is not meaningless words to a capitalist. All the worker knows is that there's a better paying job available somewhere or there's not.

The two candidates have sidestepped the issue of relating their policies to GNP growth. Will free trade or tariffs increase job creation or not? Will increasing taxes create more jobs or destroy them.

and an argument can be made that the best way to neutralize gov't debt is spending control and the best way to pay off old debt is to grow the economy.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder View Post
That national average for 87 octane is about 50 to 75 cents low for 91 octane in L.A. (What I burn). 91 is ~$4.80 @ gallon now and the "official national average" just crested $4.00. Where are all these cheap gas places?? I drove 7k miles around the U.S. last summer and didn't see any of them. Chicago has the most expensive gas in the U.S., BTW.

I apologise for blowing up on you there, this is a sore subject for me. (And a lot of others). Oil men from Texas in the WH and oil prices go ballistic. What a coincidence.
Come on down to the texas area. I just payed 3.80 last week for 87.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:38 AM
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I just had an afterthought that i wanted to add too. My in law's are over for the summer from Serbia, and after doing the conversions, they are paying about 8$/USgal.

Here's another way to twist some perceptions, ever notice how quickly and motivated people are to find other ways to fulfill there energy needs with the prices the way they are? My ME magazine two issues ago was talking about a solar panel company that is working on and close to making a breakthrough that could make them as cheap as 1$ per watt. If i remember right it had something to do with using a different material to make the panels, this way they don't have to compete with ICU manufacturers over raw materials. I also read a few days ago that a rich oil tycoon from texas just spent a few billion and will begin the construction of the largest wind farm in the nation. If oil and gas prices were as cheap as the 90's when we were basically bathing in it, i don't think anyone would have the motivation to develop these things and make them better. Just a thought.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:48 AM
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Wtf........ nobody cares that we're paying for Congress's circle jerk on taxpayers for the Farm lobbies. Many farm owners were making 100-200,000/yr a few years ago if they hand a nice small operation. Past and present taxpayer scams for them have them making $1M today. That's called buying voter sentiment imo. At least in Chicago it's not as overt.

A sister is the milk scam localized to the NE. Maybe 6-8 states involved. It adds around .50-$1 on every gallon. Some of those bucks partially support politicians or their front men?

big business farming gov't handouts is another story.

The oil market game has not adopted to huge amounts of fast $. Regulation is behind the curve. Volitile prices are set at the margin and this crap game may have a 20% cost?

this country has no serious energy policy so there's plenty of slack for volatility.

Rudy had to influence the economics of NYC to fix it. Steve Forbes was his main handler in his run for President. Forbes's influence would follow his comments in every issue. A quick scan would list the basis of his policies.






It's the voter's fault. When their houses become cold to live in they'll wake up.

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Old 06-10-2008, 01:58 AM
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