think GM has problems now?

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Easy to say, hard to do when one has a sick relative to care for, a job to go to, etc.

What's that have to do with purchasing or not purchasing a Chinese electric car?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by berettafan

not me POP. battery powered cars are a totally false economy. bogus. the concept is cute and novel but that's about it.

a REAL solution to oil dependence IS hydrogen. not a question in the world. i don't take the involvement of certain for profit companies or other gov'ts as evidence of suitability.

sooo many people are watching this issue and ready to jump behind and swear lifelong allegience to whatever technology the US Gov't shows an interest in.

i say again, ELECTRICITY IS NOT IN ABUNDANCE. like i said on the tesla thread, we are constantly being told/asked to reduce our electricity usage in every way possible. common sense tells you this is NOT the answer.

Thank you! Finite energy source that creates significant pollution to produce and without adequate infrastructure to meet high demand vs the most common element on earth. Once someone figures out a cost effective way to harness it (it's coming), it will be game over. Sure there's no hydrogen fueling infrastructure in place, but a nation of electric cars would also require an overhaul of the nation's electric infrastructure. Each has high costs.

Once home hydrogen fueling stations are fully developed it will make the fueling infrastructure less of an issue. Imagine only having to pay for natural gas and having your fueling station fuel your cars, power your house with electricity, heat your home and water, and provide you an income selling the excess electricity back to the grid. All by only consuming natural gas, which is available in huge quantites here in the USA.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/nov2007/bw20071127_309229.htm?campaign_id=rss_as

As for the Chinese, just punch "Chinese crash test results" into YouTube. We have a few years before they are a real threat, but it's coming. It took Hyundai about 20 years to start selling decent cars, I would expect a similar cycle from China. Start cheap to get into the market, then gradually start moving upmarket. Unless they just buy GM, then all bets are off. Tata buying Jaguar and Land Rover is seen as their first step towards going global, it's a logical first step for a Chinese maker as well.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by the

wouldn't that be definition mean we would be stealing stolen intellectual property?

not necessarily

We ("Western" culture) already stole fireworks/explosives, noodles/pasta and maybe even the trebuchet from China.

They are quite capable of inventing things on their own. The current paranoia is just like US v. Japan from the 1950s to 1980s.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by dd74

What's that have to do with purchasing or not purchasing a Chinese electric car?

If it's the only option available (as might be the case in years to come) it makes it hard to be an idealist and stick to one's conviction of "I'm going to walk" when confronted with those sorts of real-world issues, that's all.

[red-beard]

The main grid issues are long distance transport. Wind power does not happen where the power needs to be used. The grid upgrades are needed to transport electricity over great distances.

That said, expanding the local generation where it is needed is best.

Electric cars would be best supported by Nuclear generation...

[tcar]

Electric cars = Coal-burning cars

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Christien

Interesting article. I do hope they make them safe for the north american market so we can get them here. I smell a great business opportunity. I think it would take a while to catch on, but with gas prices here at 84c/L (about $2.60/gallon) practical electric cars would likely sell well. They'd need to make them faster than 60mph though.

What kind of idiot would buy a chinese car?

I have a variety of chinese built products. Most of them are poorly built pieces of crap.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by RWebb

not necessarily

We ("Western" culture) already stole fireworks/explosives, noodles/pasta and maybe even the trebuchet from China.

They are quite capable of inventing things on their own. The current paranoia is just like US v. Japan from the 1950s to 1980s.

The Chinese are well known patent ignorers.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

If it's the only option available (as might be the case in years to come) it makes it hard to be an idealist and stick to one's conviction of "I'm going to walk" when confronted with those sorts of real-world issues, that's all.

I'll easily stick to my convictions, as it won't be the only option available.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Not by m21sniper

What kind of idiot would buy a Japanese car?

I have a variety of Japanese built products. Most of them are poorly built pieces of crap.

- here is an old post from 1961

[m21sniper]

I have yet to see a single piece of Chinese built kit that i would call "high quality".

[RWebb]

just wait a few decades

not just Japan - the US was a source for cheap-ass furniture & etc. for Europeans in the early 1800s

[dd74]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I have yet to see a single piece of Chinese built kit that i would call "high quality".

Have you ever wondered if quality is a thing of the past?

I can't remember which car magazine it was, but it suggested that the new Mercedes sounds like a tin can when the door is shut when compared to anything from the 80s and earlier. In short, it seems the writer suggests some quality might be missing.

Then again, maybe no one cares about quality. Drive it a few years and unload it.

[m21sniper]

I sure hope that's not how things play out.

[jyl]

The Chinese want to develop their own car companies, that's natural. I imagine they will work their way up the industry ladder like the Koreans now, and the Japanese before them. I have little doubt that in 20 years, a couple of Chinese car companies will be among the world's largest.

As for the future market for battery-on cars, when will that market develop? Until batteries have lots more range, are a lot cheaper, and recharge a lot faster, I think battery-only cars will be a small niche market. Certainly in the US and Europe, and probably in most of Asia too - even in China, most people would like to be able to drive 50 miles without havnig to walk home.

[RWebb]

Well, if your commute is 50 or less and you have free charging stations at each end...

Another transition is to simply make each generation of hybrids have a bit more electric emphasis and less gas motor emphasis.

[jyl]

But that becomes such a limited purpose car, only able to drive to work and back. Can't detour 10 miles for shopping or to go out on Fri night, no longer trip on the weekend - maybe okay for a second car, but it will be a long time before Chinese families have multiple cars.

Hybrids will make more sense than all-battery cars, for a long time.

[boba]

Originally Posted by tcar

electric cars = coal-burning cars

+1

[speedracing944]

Originally Posted by berettafan

not me POP. battery powered cars are a totally false economy. bogus. the concept is cute and novel but that's about it.

a REAL solution to oil dependence IS hydrogen. not a question in the world. i don't take the involvement of certain for profit companies or other gov'ts as evidence of suitability.

sooo many people are watching this issue and ready to jump behind and swear lifelong allegience to whatever technology the US Gov't shows an interest in.

i say again, ELECTRICITY IS NOT IN ABUNDANCE. like i said on the tesla thread, we are constantly being told/asked to reduce our electricity usage in every way possible. common sense tells you this is NOT the answer.

How is hydrogen produced?
Coal burning power plants producing electricity for the electrolysis of water to use as fuel in a car.

Now cut out the middle...
Coal burning power plants producing electricity for fuel in a car.

Speedy

[911pcars]

Limited mileage on batteries represents limited thinking.

When you talk about future technological innovations, you shouldn't necessarily apply old technology as a factor in limiting the application. Who's to say an extended life battery won't be developed or there won't be a substitute for coal to produce electricity? I understand scientists are working on laser technology to generate electricity cheaply.

"I have a variety of chinese built products. Most of them are poorly built pieces of crap. "

Who makes your electronic toys and appliances (i.e. computers, iPods, cell phones, TVs, etc.)? Emerson, Sylvania, Motorola, Packard Bell? Nope. Got a Dell computer? How do you say, "thank you" in Mandarin?

Per Webb's post, it sounds like the same response when Toyota and Honda began selling cars in the US. The big three ignored them, even while they were slowly losing market share. Let's not repeat that same "head-in-the-sand" mentality.

Sherwood