JoePa Shocking........

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Lothar

......all schools and programs should not be condemned for the actions of a few.

When the improper actions of a few are focused on the preservation of a thing then it must be made clear that the thing's value was and is not more important than the proper action.

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

When the improper actions of a few are focused on the preservation of a thing then it must be made clear that the thing's value was and is not more important than the proper action.

Finessed it a little.

When improper actions are covered up by a powerful few to protect something then it must be made clear that preserving that thing is not more important than taking the proper action in the first place.

I agree with the actions taken by the NCAA. We cry out for accountability when it doesn't happen so we should be happy that accountability has been enforced here.

It still stuns me that the janitor witnessed Sandusky raping that kid in the showers and did NOTHING.

[Jim Richards]

I think the NCAA generally got it right with their actions against Penn State.

[Seahawk]

[QUOTE=BE911SC;6870991It still stuns me that the janitor witnessed Sandusky raping that kid in the showers and did NOTHING.[/QUOTE]

I won't handicap the janitors actions or lack thereof. His decision to remain silent is at the core of the whole mess: He knew if he spoke out he would be fired and nothing else of substance would have been done.

You don't tug on Superman's cape.

If any person's behavior shocks me, it is the father of Mike McQueary.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I won't handicap the janitors actions or lack thereof. His decision to remain silent is at the core of the whole mess: He knew if he spoke out he would be fired and nothing else of substance would have been done.

You don't tug on Superman's cape.

If any person's behavior shocks me, it is the father of Mike McQueary.

Disagree. That janitors RESPONSIBILITY was to report it and if fired because of, should have RELENTLESSLY pursue the law, turn down hush money (if ever came to that), etc. This is the problem and you stated in this case 'core of the whole mess'. All sick SOB's. Like rabies spread thru a pack, this situation was boiling for years there. C'mon now!

Don't think there's not near enough penalty onto the school or personel. All to protect some game and not the victims. Nutz!

[Baz]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

When the improper actions of a few are focused on the preservation of a thing then it must be made clear that the thing's value was and is not more important than the proper action.

Respectfully disagree.

*Here's why:

At first it seemed like Sandusky was alone in the cover up of his appalling acts. But then more and more was revealed, leading to the conclusion that Sandusky could have been stopped before more victims fell into his wretched hands.

According to the Freeh report that came out July 12, Joe Paterno, athletic director Tim Curley, president Graham Spanier and vice president Gary Schultz all knew about Sandusky’s crimes but never helped with the situation. They allowed Sandusky to continue his unlimited use of Penn State facilities, they didn’t help the victims and they never even contacted the police. They tried to cover up for that monster for over a decade.

Surely, punishment must be handed down. Such behavior cannot be allowed. But I don’t think harshly punishing the football program is the right way to do it.

Legal justification is the only way to go.

The NCAA has doled out punishments recently to programs like USC and Ohio State, but those are justified. By breaking rules set out by the NCAA, the schools gained unfair advantages. They broke football rules, so the football team was punished.

The guilty parties of Penn State, on the other hand, didn’t break rules—they broke laws.

Coaches didn’t unfairly recruit. Players didn’t receive improper benefits. According to NCAA rules, Penn State didn’t break any regulations that gave them a competitive advantage over other football programs.

In fact, the collective actions of this horrible mess worked in the opposite way. No five star recruit is going to sign on to a program that just lost multiple high-ranking officials, including the winningest head coach of all time, will be constantly under watch of the authorities now and where he won’t get as much football attention as he would elsewhere now that legal stories dominate the landscape of the team’s news.

The natural fallout from everything that has happened in the past nine months is plenty enough to set back the Penn State football program.

By imposing a loss of scholarships and bowl appearances, the NCAA is only further punishing those who had nothing to do with any of the controversy.

Paterno has passed away, Mike McQueary, Spanier and Schultz no longer hold jobs at Penn State, Curley is on administrative leave and likely to be fired and Sandusky is spending the remainder of his life behind bars.

Additionally, Schultz and Curley await trial on indictments of perjury. Those two and Spanier will also likely be tried for obstruction of justice after the Freeh Report’s findings.

Legal punishment for all of them and the removal of Paterno’s statue is just enough. By removing the statue, Penn State is putting the whole ordeal behind them and moving forward.

The NCAA should do the same.

Any penalties the NCAA hands down will not bring any more justice to the poor victims of Sandusky. Only the legal courts can do that, and justice is well on its way.

By punishing Penn State’s football program, the NCAA is only hurting the university’s athletes, fans, students, alumni, faculty members and anyone else involved with the school. They had nothing to do with Sandusky’s crimes or the cover ups of them.

Those who committed the crimes either have already paid or are going to pay the legal price.

Don’t drag down the innocent with them.

* from: Why Any NCAA Penalty on Penn State Is Unnecessary | Bleacher Report

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Baz

Respectfully disagree.

*Here's why:



Coaches didn’t unfairly recruit. Players didn’t receive improper benefits. According to NCAA rules, Penn State didn’t break any regulations that gave them a competitive advantage over other football programs.



* from: Why Any NCAA Penalty on Penn State Is Unnecessary | Bleacher Report

That doesn't really make sense.

Penn State, from top to bottom, kept this a secret for the very purpose of recruiting.

They were faced with 2 choices: (1) Do the right thing, and kill their recruiting, or (2) do the wrong thing, cover it up, and save their recruiting (and football program in general), at the cost of having dozens of 10 year old boys victimized, including anally raped.

Penn State chose to break the law to help their recruiting, in the most sickening, disgusting way ever in the history of NCAA sports. They chose this for a competitive advantage.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Baz

Respectfully disagree.

*Here's why:



By punishing Penn State’s football program, the NCAA is only hurting the university’s athletes, fans, students, alumni, faculty members and anyone else involved with the school. They had nothing to do with Sandusky’s crimes or the cover ups of them.

Those who committed the crimes either have already paid or are going to pay the legal price.

Don’t drag down the innocent with them.

* from: Why Any NCAA Penalty on Penn State Is Unnecessary | Bleacher Report

This argument can be made for just about any violation of the rules.

Every single time an athletic program is punished, it hurts the "university’s athletes, fans, students, alumni, faculty members and anyone else involved with the school" who are 100% innocent and didn't have anything to do with the wrongdoing.

That's just the way it works. It's a little thing called "accountability."

[VaSteve]

All those people contributed to the cult of personality/hero worship that made this possible.

A student that went there for an education got what they paid for and i'm sure made friends and had experiences seperate from the football program.

[MRM]

The university itself must be severely punished, includin but not limited to the football team because the university itself, at its highest levels, engaged in illegal activity to further its interests in football. The university benefited from its illegal behavior and must be punished. The fans, the players, etc., all benefited from the coverup that effectively pimped out ten year old boys to a pedophile in exchange for the strategy that kept Penn State at the elite level, and prevented the scandal that would have happened years ago if it had come to light then. This is just putting the team, including its fans, back in the position they would have been in had the college reported the crimes when they should have. The improper benefit of having a team to cheer for without the cloud of scandal is something the fans shouldn't have had in the first place. It should be taken away in its entirety now.

[dennis in se pa]

Maybe the Catholic Church can take over Penn State now.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by dennis in se pa

Maybe the Catholic Church can take over Penn State now.

It is a shame that Penn State learned from the Catholic Church the lesson, cover up and deny. That plan is still working for the church.

[Lothar]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

When the improper actions of a few are focused on the preservation of a thing then it must be made clear that the thing's value was and is not more important than the proper action.

And all I will say to that is: We used to live in a country where individuals were held accountable for their actions and punished accordingly.

[911pcars]

"

Originally Posted by MRM

The university itself must be severely punished, includin but not limited to the football team because the university itself, at its highest levels, engaged in illegal activity to further its interests in football. The university benefited from its illegal behavior and must be punished. The fans, the players, etc., all benefited from the coverup that effectively pimped out ten year old boys to a pedophile in exchange for the strategy that kept Penn State at the elite level, and prevented the scandal that would have happened years ago if it had come to light then. This is just putting the team, including its fans, back in the position they would have been in had the college reported the crimes when they should have. The improper benefit of having a team to cheer for without the cloud of scandal is something the fans shouldn't have had in the first place. It should be taken away in its entirety now.

+1
The NCAA's penalties are an attempt to replicate the response by the community, the sports world and collegiate entities had Sandusky and the university's cover up conspiracy been exposed in 2001. Note: Sandusky's "Second Mile" youth group began in 1977; his coaching position at PS began in 1969.

Freeh Report: "The jury found Sandusky guilty of 45 of the 48 charges against him: 25 felonies and 20 misdemeanors."

Seems to me at least 10-30+ years worth of football-as-usual at Penn State (and child molestation history) justifies more sanctions than what was just announced by the NCAA.

Sherwood

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Lothar

And all I will say to that is: We used to live in a country where individuals were held accountable for their actions and punished accordingly.

They acted as, on behalf of and for the benefit of not only themselves but the organization itself.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Lothar

And all I will say to that is: We used to live in a country where individuals were held accountable for their actions and punished accordingly.

Can you provide more details of your thinking?

Which brings me to the status of those in the conspiracy:

Joe Paterno: deceased
Athletic director Tim Curley
PS University's VP: Gary Schultz
PS University Prez, Graham Spanier

According to reports, only Curley and Schultz have been arrested and charged thus far.

S

[intakexhaust]

The penalty and punishment is far from harsh enough! This sickness will continue. So, let it be known to ALL victims the innocent, sideliners to the guilty and predators now and in the future that it happened and continues to exist everywhere.

The example punishment to Penn State is nothing. In a few decades, most of this will be forgotten by the majority. Need something like a lifetime ban for Penn State and the entire participation football program. With a football program banned, Penn State would be on the pedestal as a forever example as the discrace of human violation and only then would possibly be considered a great institution. The new leadership SHOULD voluntarily make this choice as a healing and setting a better example. But of course, they won't. Those at the top (past and current) running Penn State are just scum, deceitful, egotistic money grabbers. I'll bet many, who were in the know are praying there names won't come up.


(Sorry for those players and careers, but maybe they could work thru some special recruitment for transfer or something at the NCAA expense.) This is the only way to DRILL it home and as a constant reminder to all. C'mon, be real here. High society perps protect themselves and work together with the blackmail game. This problem is throughout the country. I've read or heard on the news dozens of cases in the Chicago area student / coach / teacher inappropriate behaviour in just the last few years. Teachers records are expunged and transfer around. Union protection, etc. Complete joke how they operate.

Also, I'm going to go so far out and guess in the Catholic archdiocese, 5% are molestors or have other perp sexual problems. Ancient problem. They have them all over Chicago and in the suburban churches. Cover-ups that only in the last 20 years are finally in the news. The most trusted and sacred place and peace of mind for many families has been violated... and the church continues to make their own policies. Absurd. This has nothing to do with freedom of religion but the government needs to tax them all, over-rule and police any organized church. Rome with its billions is whacked as bad. Then you have the Catholic pius Mexicans. The stories from down there are over the top. Sick, sick, sick. Done with my commentary.

[Lothar]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

They acted as, on behalf of and for the benefit of not only themselves but the organization itself.

So lock up the poor along with Robin Hood. If you can prove a conspiracy, then lock up everyone that covered up this situation and replace them with people of higher moral character.

[rouxroux]

[Chocaholic]

That entire football program should be shut down for five years minimum, in addition to the fines, etc. Penn State proved in the worst possible way that it is simply unworthy of existence, much less a football program.