JoePa Shocking........

[tevake]

Crowbob, probably some sense of personal loyalty to Sandusky, long time friend ,partner at work and apparently a neighbor.
And the desire to keep his program untainted.
May have had the delusional thought that with his influence the whole thing could just be kept under wraps. And look at how long he was correct.

[Crowbob]

"We know he could have made different choices - he admitted that. We don't think he is God or always perfect or saintly."

Is Joe even Catholic?

[tevake]

Maybe he is, and was just doing what he learned at church.

[mossguy]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

[/B]."

Is Joe even Catholic?

Joe Paterno
AKA Joseph Vincent Paterno

Born: 21-Dec-1926
Birthplace: Brooklyn, NY

Gender: Male
Religion: Roman Catholic
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Football

Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Coach at Penn State

[Crowbob]

Uh oh.

Maybe he was, tevake, maybe he was.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

The obvious question is why would Joe Paterno risk everything by not bringing the cops into this whole hideous turn of events?

What possible benefit could Joe Paterno have by keeping this mess under the protective wraps of the Penn State organization which has worshipped him for decades?

Are you serious?

[McLovin]

Because I'm not sure if you're just trying to "play devil's advocate," conducting a "social experiment," or some other thing.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Macroni

To Non-Staters:

We know you don't understand. Generally, we don't try to explain. Unless you are a Buckeye or Fighting Irish, you probably don't get how an institution embeds itself in a student's life. And that is fine.

But right now, we want you to know this:
...
We are distraught and truly sickened by this horror perpetrated on young victims by one who represented the Blue and White, and perpetuated by others at the University. We aren't blind followers who drink Blue Kool-Aid. We grieve for and with the victims and their families. We pray for them to find healing and peace and a way to live a good life.

We know that while many people had responsibility, the most visible one almost always goes down first. We are not disputing the need for this to happen.

We are not "defending" anything. We are simply crushed and heartbroken. This is not the Penn State we love, the Penn State that is part of our being.

What you know of Joe Paterno probably comes from television or magazine articles.

We know the man who has lived in the same McKee St house for decades. We have chatted with him as he walked to practice. We have eaten ice cream with him at the Creamery. We have studied in the new library wing his money helped build. We have visited the sports museum and spiritual center he also helped build. We have seen him cheering on other Penn State athletes. We know he loves Penn State as much as we do.

Some of our friends, brothers, husbands, sons have been privileged to put on the Blue and White uniform and listen to 100,000 fans in Beaver Stadium. We know how hard they have worked, how much time they have devoted, how many of them have been part of an excellent scholar/athlete legacy...and how much they love this man and this program.

We aren't stupid or naive. We know Joe Paterno has culpability. We know he could have made different choices - he admitted that. We don't think he is God or always perfect or saintly. But he is the greatest college football coach ever, and he is PSU family, and we don't want his exit to be like this.

WE ARE...not closing our eyes, ignoring reports, pretending this isn't a wretched occurrence.
WE ARE...angry that innocents would be violated under our care.
WE ARE...in support of appropriate punishment for every person involved.
WE ARE...demanding change to a system that would allow this.
WE ARE...not concerned if you do not understand our love and devotion.
WE ARE...PENN STATE proud and we will rise again.

Well put. I am proud of Penn State for firing Joe PA. As I said he WAS a honest coach when so many would do anything to get an edge, he seemed to stay away from that. Until this horrible stain on his carrer. He will be forever tainted buy the descision to act like the Catholic church.

[Crowbob]

Yes, McLovin. I am serious, I am playing Devil's advocate, conducting a social experiment and yes, some other thing.

It seems to me Joe would have gone directly to the police pecisely to protect Penn State and his legacy.

It seems to me a person, such as what Joe is portrayed to have been, would put the welfare of children above the welfare of a close personal pervert friend and the reputation of Penn State and his own legacy.

It further seems to me that a person, such as what Joe Paterno is portrayed to have been, would put the welfare of young troubled boys entrusted to the care of a close personal pervert friend wha was using the Penn State facilities for over a decade over the reputation of Penn State and his own legacy.

It seems to me a person, such as what Joe Paterno is portrayed to have been, would put the welfare of numerous, innocent, troubled young boys entrusted to the care of a close personal pervert friend using the Penn State facilities for over a decade to ensnare more innocent young troubled boys ahead of the reputation of Penn State and his own legacy.

Or, Joe Paterno is not what he is alleged to have been.

Not even close.

[McLovin]

Well, these were your specific questions:

The obvious question is why would Joe Paterno risk everything by not bringing the cops into this whole hideous turn of events?

What possible benefit could Joe Paterno have by keeping this mess under the protective wraps of the Penn State organization which has worshipped him for decades?

Let's break it down.

You are the $1 million/yr coach of a high profile, big business college football team.

The entire school is basically named after you ("The House that Joe Built").

You need to keep recruiting to keep on top.

Now you find out that your long time assistant coach has been taking showers with 10 year old boys in the locker rooms of The House That Joe Built. (Undisputed fact that he knew, and Sandusky admitted to).

After knowing that, 2 more years pass and you find out that that same coach has just anally raped a 10 year old boy in those showers.

Now, think hard, is this information:

1. Good for The House that Joe Built?

or

2. Bad for The House that Joe Built?

Now, would you rather:

1. No one ever find out about it, and the story just goes away?

or

2. Everyone find out about it, it becomes national news, your blue chip recruits go away, you get implicated in it big time (b/c at the time he found out about the anal raping, he already knew Sandusky had been doing improper things with kids in the showers, b/c Sandusky admitted to it 2 years prior).

Does that help paint a picture of why Paterno would prefer that this whole thing be kept under wraps? Can you see it now?

[RWebb]

it is always possible that in the crush of running a football team, he thought that doing the legal minimum (reporting it to a (de jure) higher up) was enough

that does not explain the delay

also, I don't know exactly what he was told

anyway, it is a moral stain on his reputation and he is gone

[McLovin]

We do know that he knew that Sandusky had engaged in admitted inappropriate conduct with very young boys in the showers of The House that Joe Built.

We also know that 2 years later, he was told, at a minimum, that Sandusky had again engaged in "disturbing" conduct of "a sexual nature" with a 10 year old in those same showers.

That is all undisputed.

Nothing more needs to known about what he was told and what knowledge he had. That is more than enough.

(Although I would bet that he was told all the details by McQueary (because that's just common sense and human nature) that is just the icing on this disgusting cake.)

[RWebb]

That is more than enough ethically, morally - not legally. He fulfilled his legal duty under Penn. law (maybe PSU has some enhancement, but nothing was said to me about anything like this when I was on their faculty).

[Crowbob]

No, it does not, McLovin.

Your reiteration does explain why someone of questionable moral fibre would prefer the whole thing go away. It does explain why someone of questionable moral fibre would put his entire identity and the entire identity of Penn State for years to come ahead of the rapes of innocent children.

But why would "Joe Pa" do such a thing?

Is Joe Paterno so morally bankrupt that he would cast a blind eye rather than put an immediate end to such a nightmare?

Or did Joe Paterno have something he wanted to preserve something that he cherished more than even the lives of those innocent children?

Was it friendship? Was it career? Was it money? Was it legacy? Was it honor?

All these things are now gone. Joseph Vincent Paterno apparently believed the gamble that it would all go away was worth the risk to save something great.

What one thing does Joe Paterno still have? What one thing does Joe Paterno apparently believe is more valuable to Joseph Vincent Paterno than even the prevention of pain and humility, loss of a sacred trust, and a lifetime of shame these young boys now must bear?

Is Joseph Vincent Paterno a man of questionable moral fibre?

Or is he worse?

[DaveE]

I would bet that McQueary didn't go into great detail just out of the embarrassment of describing it to a man he'd looked up to as a father figure since he was a child.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

No, it does not, McLovin.

Sure it does, it answers your specific questions posed in your Post #139.

In your later posts (149 and 154) you ask different questions.

Of course I couldn't answer questions that have not been posed yet.

But, as to 149 and 154, the answer is quite simple:

Paterno wasn't the "pillar of responsibility" or "pillar of morality" that everyone thought.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Superman

... those facts are not established by the statements made on this forum. I asked questions. Sorry if that seem to you like I was "all over the place." I am not a moral relativist, as many of you appear to be insinuating.

Facts not established by statements here? So this is CNN now or something I guess.

Mr Paterno, as an educator, almost certainly had a legal responsibility to call the police himself when he had knowledge that his former "heir apparent," someone who left the university years earlier due to similar acts, was in the showers with a little boy. If Mr Paterno were in fact some sort of pillar of morality, he would not be talking about how he wished he had handled things differently way back when. He would have done the right thing.

I have no doubt he had a great positive impact on many young men. I also am of the opinion that the negative impact on the victims and their families far outweighs any good he may have done in his 40 years as a football coach. Maybe Pennsylvania will go bankrupt before California because of this

You certainly give every appearance of being a moral relativist. If this is something that bothers you, don't come here and complain about it, do something about it.

[madmmac]

Originally Posted by madmmac

McQueary walking through the shower area and sees Sandusky obviously raping Joe's wife. Not lovemaking, raping.

He waits and calls his Dad that night to see what he should do?

Tells Joe the next day. Joe thinks the best appropriate action is to tell the AD?

Duck, cover, monkey roll.

I guess I should have added wash hands. I have fulfilled my duty to the utmost and feel good about myself for doing so.

F...that.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Macroni

I AM...not concerned if you do not understand MY love and devotion.

Easily the most ridiculous email yet crafted...just left the part in I thought Sandusky wrote.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Easily the most ridiculous email yet crafted...just left the part in I thought Sandusky wrote.

Please do not attribute to me...