Why are Engineers so arrogant?

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by TimT

Really?...OK.. tell me what we do?

You guys look stuff up in tables.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by RWebb

You guys look stuff up in tables.

Naw, that's too hard. We make assumptions until stuff is easy enough to solve with F=ma or the simplified Bernoulli equation.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Bob Slydell: You see, what we're actually trying to do here is, we're trying to get a feel for how people spend their day at work... so, if you would, would you walk us through a typical day, for you?
Peter Gibbons: Yeah.
Bob Slydell: Great.
Peter Gibbons: Well, I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late, ah, I use the side door - that way Lumbergh can't see me, heh heh - and, uh, after that I just sorta space out for about an hour.
Bob Porter: Da-uh? Space out?
Peter Gibbons: Yeah, I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

That's funny Matt, good one.

Originally Posted by RWebb

You guys look stuff up in tables.

Not bad but strike 3.

OK boys and girls, Iv'e been asking this question for going on 29 years and NOBODY has answered it. Personally if I were an engineering professor it would be on the blackboard forever, (do we still have blackboards?)...

Engineers take scientific principals and put them to practical use
Yippee!!! I work with these clams and 75% of the time they're college educated idiots, not disisng anyone here, I've never worked with you. Just sayin'.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

That's funny Matt, good one.



Not bad but strike 3.

OK boys and girls, Iv'e been asking this question for going on 29 years and NOBODY has answered it. Personally if I were an engineering professor it would be on the blackboard forever, (do we still have blackboards?)...

Engineers take scientific principals and put them to practical use
Yippee!!! I work with these clams and 75% of the time they're college educated idiots, not disisng anyone here, I've never worked with you. Just sayin'.

Aw, man. That's all you had? I was expecting a great punch line. I'm so disappointed.

[Flieger]

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

take scientific principals and put them to impractical use

I've seen this a lot...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Engineers take scientific principals and put them to practical use

How? Do they put an electric-cooled pony harness on them and use them as plow horses?

I'm glad I'm not a principal!

[onewhippedpuppy]

A buddy of mine is a principal, former science teacher. I'll tell him to watch his back.

[Flieger]

I know engineers aren't the only fans of XKCD

[Flieger]

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Seven pages and there isn't an engineer here that can tell me what they do. Didn't read one post, just sayin'.

A serious answer, since I happen to think I have quite possibly one of the best jobs in the world (and a challenge to gearya to explain at a similar level what he does...):

I work for Boeing in Everett, WA. I am in a very small group known in the industry as "AOG" - Aircraft on Ground. Our AOG team has about 200 people on it, from mechanics to planners to engineers, covering every discipline required to get a disabled ("on ground") aircraft back in service. We travel the world providing on-site support for our customers and their Boeing widebody aircraft.

On this team, there are only two of us (but we are training two more) that do the kind of work I do. I design the tooling and equipment we use in the field on 747, 767, 777, and now 787 aircraft. The stuff I design is used to repair aircraft damaged in service, or it is used to affect what we call "service bulletin" work that can be anything from warranty repairs to upgrading aircraft components to enhanced reliability, service life, or whatever.

This stuff I design includes simple overhead handling equipment ("below the hook" stuff) like spreader bars and slings for removing various bits of the airplane (like control surfaces and such, up to and including the entire empennage - vertical fin, horizontal stab, and the body aft of the pressure bulkhead). We even take the bulkhead out and replace it at times (The Discovery Channel showed our team doing this in France. I wasn't on that trip, but they were using my tools and equipment). Other handling and lifting equipment can get a bit more complex, for example that used for the removal of engines, landing gear, and the like - we actually hang that equipment from the aircraft itself, utilizing local bits of structure to hang it from.

Of course we have to put it all back together again as well, and I design the tooling needed to re-locate those original parts that are not what we call "determinate assembly", or to locate the new, replacement parts. This is not like working on your Porsche - nothing just bolts together - it's all jig located and mounting holes drilled (or at least finish sized) on assembly.

Our other big hitter is portable machining equipment. This includes boring fixtures used to renew anything from landing gear pivot bushings to engine strut mounting bushings, to name just two typical jobs. These are all bored in place on the aircraft and on the component (that has been removed) being refurbished. When done, the two obviously have to go back together - gear on its trunnion pins, struts on their pins, etc. These are typically not final bored or honed at assembly, so these operations demand a great deal of precision to ensure final fit. There are, of course, a myriad of other precision boring and drilling operations we must perform in the field - cargo door hinges and latches are an example that comes to mind. Beyond that, there is a good deal of what we call "sheet metal" work, much of it requiring a good deal of tooling for drilling operations, locating components, etc.

As I mentioned earlier, our team that works out of Everett. When our mechanics are doing the work, we can travel with anywhere from two or three to fifty or more. It's my job on those trips to help the mechanics use and understand our tools and equipment, troubleshoot it when necessary, and provide in-field modifications, "work arounds", repairs, or whatever it takes to get the job done. I also provide jacking and shoring expertise, and monitor loads on all of that. It's my job to jack and shore it back to straight, if for some reason it's not (we use known points on the airframe and surveyor type optical equipment to verify).

In addition to traveling with our team, I also travel in support of our customers when they elect to have their own mechanics (or an MRO - Maintenance/Repair Operation) perform the modification or repair. Here I simply provide technical support - finger pointing and arrogant opinions on how whatever it is should be done.

In addition to myself and the other guy who actually designs this stuff, we have four other guys in our Tool Engineering group who do nothing but travel. The other guy who designs does not travel - I'm the only guy who does both, but I do spend a good deal more time at my desk than on the road. I average maybe three months on the road in any given year, and certainly not all at the same time. Like I said above, we have two more we are training, and they will do both.

Needless to say, our work is what one might call fairly "high profile", at least with our customers. They get very, very excited when they have a $150M machine grounded, not making them any money. AOG is one of the most difficult groups to make it in at the Boeing Co. Everybody is "graded" on every trip, and no one gets to rest on their laurels, no matter who you are or what you've done in the past.

I did this early in my career, until domestic life intervened (then I went to designing mold dies and such to form interior parts for awhile), but now I've been back in AOG for the last ten years. I love it. Every day is different, and we never know what's next... Oh, and in doing so, we employ far more common sense and observation than "scientific principle". You get a big red "F".

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

That's funny Matt, good one.



Not bad but strike 3.

OK boys and girls, Iv'e been asking this question for going on 29 years and NOBODY has answered it. Personally if I were an engineering professor it would be on the blackboard forever, (do we still have blackboards?)...

Engineers take scientific principals and put them to practical use
Yippee!!! I work with these clams and 75% of the time they're college educated idiots, not disisng anyone here, I've never worked with you. Just sayin'.

you really don't understand engineering..

[Rusty Heap]

blah blah blah blah blah...............in other words, Jeff Shims to fit.


After working at Boeing for 20 years in Final Assy where I designed/used automated laser alignment systems and closed loop servo controls positioners (okay, the 747 back in 1968 had hand cranks to align things)...........we put the planes together with .125" nose tip to tail alignment straightness (while a worse case 747 was a 6" bent banana)

while plugging the wings into the main body wing/box section, you want the wing tips moved up and forward 10 thou? no problems, on a 200 foot wingspan airplane. That is in a controlled factory.

Jeff gets to work in both worlds, reality (get a bigger hammer) and theory (might want to re-run those calculations again), in mud puddles and sniper fire and get bit by bugs in Japan swelling his ring finger the size of a german brawt.


But still, even at Boeing, the common mere mortal public really doesn't want to know what goes on behind the scenes, even in the factory...........yes, shimming to fit on over-sized blown out oval holes.


As my Dad worked on the Saturn IV rocket, and I the Delta IV heavy lift, yes somethings in life ARE rocket science, but 90% of todays kids are lucky to type without relying on spell checker, and math is hard. Even today, mostly gone are the shade tree mechanics timing their engine pulls of a VW bug.

Yes math exists past 12 x 12 grid chart in the inside of your Pee-Chee notebook, although some people can't count past when they run out of fingers, or can't tell you what 10% of a number is without hurting the lump of clay between the ears. I'm just happy when at a fast food place El-retardo Employee gets my order right by pushing the color food item photos on the cash register. But we need all sectors of the workplace from top to bottom, I'm just glad I'm not a bottom feeder with both teeth making minimum wage.

Vintage Pee Chee All Season Portfolio School Folder Retro by Mead | eBay

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

A serious answer, since I happen to think I have quite possibly one of the best jobs in the world (and a challenge to gearya to explain at a similar level what he does...):

I work for Boeing in Everett, WA. I am in a very small group known in the industry as "AOG" - Aircraft on Ground. Our AOG team has about 200 people on it, from mechanics to planners to engineers, covering every discipline required to get a disabled ("on ground") aircraft back in service. We travel the world providing on-site support for our customers and their Boeing widebody aircraft.

On this team, there are only two of us (but we are training two more) that do the kind of work I do. I design the tooling and equipment we use in the field on 747, 767, 777, and now 787 aircraft. The stuff I design is used to repair aircraft damaged in service, or it is used to affect what we call "service bulletin" work that can be anything from warranty repairs to upgrading aircraft components to enhanced reliability, service life, or whatever.

This stuff I design includes simple overhead handling equipment ("below the hook" stuff) like spreader bars and slings for removing various bits of the airplane (like control surfaces and such, up to and including the entire empennage - vertical fin, horizontal stab, and the body aft of the pressure bulkhead). We even take the bulkhead out and replace it at times (The Discovery Channel showed our team doing this in France. I wasn't on that trip, but they were using my tools and equipment). Other handling and lifting equipment can get a bit more complex, for example that used for the removal of engines, landing gear, and the like - we actually hang that equipment from the aircraft itself, utilizing local bits of structure to hang it from.

Of course we have to put it all back together again as well, and I design the tooling needed to re-locate those original parts that are not what we call "determinate assembly", or to locate the new, replacement parts. This is not like working on your Porsche - nothing just bolts together - it's all jig located and mounting holes drilled (or at least finish sized) on assembly.

Our other big hitter is portable machining equipment. This includes boring fixtures used to renew anything from landing gear pivot bushings to engine strut mounting bushings, to name just two typical jobs. These are all bored in place on the aircraft and on the component (that has been removed) being refurbished. When done, the two obviously have to go back together - gear on its trunnion pins, struts on their pins, etc. These are typically not final bored or honed at assembly, so these operations demand a great deal of precision to ensure final fit. There are, of course, a myriad of other precision boring and drilling operations we must perform in the field - cargo door hinges and latches are an example that comes to mind. Beyond that, there is a good deal of what we call "sheet metal" work, much of it requiring a good deal of tooling for drilling operations, locating components, etc.

As I mentioned earlier, our team that works out of Everett. When our mechanics are doing the work, we can travel with anywhere from two or three to fifty or more. It's my job on those trips to help the mechanics use and understand our tools and equipment, troubleshoot it when necessary, and provide in-field modifications, "work arounds", repairs, or whatever it takes to get the job done. I also provide jacking and shoring expertise, and monitor loads on all of that. It's my job to jack and shore it back to straight, if for some reason it's not (we use known points on the airframe and surveyor type optical equipment to verify).

In addition to traveling with our team, I also travel in support of our customers when they elect to have their own mechanics (or an MRO - Maintenance/Repair Operation) perform the modification or repair. Here I simply provide technical support - finger pointing and arrogant opinions on how whatever it is should be done.

In addition to myself and the other guy who actually designs this stuff, we have four other guys in our Tool Engineering group who do nothing but travel. The other guy who designs does not travel - I'm the only guy who does both, but I do spend a good deal more time at my desk than on the road. I average maybe three months on the road in any given year, and certainly not all at the same time. Like I said above, we have two more we are training, and they will do both.

Needless to say, our work is what one might call fairly "high profile", at least with our customers. They get very, very excited when they have a $150M machine grounded, not making them any money. AOG is one of the most difficult groups to make it in at the Boeing Co. Everybody is "graded" on every trip, and no one gets to rest on their laurels, no matter who you are or what you've done in the past.

I did this early in my career, until domestic life intervened (then I went to designing mold dies and such to form interior parts for awhile), but now I've been back in AOG for the last ten years. I love it. Every day is different, and we never know what's next... Oh, and in doing so, we employ far more common sense and observation than "scientific principle". You get a big red "F".

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Seven pages and there isn't an engineer here that can tell me what they do. Didn't read one post, just sayin'.

We apply math to common sense and make people's lives better.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I work for Boeing in Everett, WA. I am in a very small group known in the industry as "AOG" - Aircraft on Ground.

Jeff - did you ever work with a guy named Brad Henriksen? I worked with him in HSV but he told me once he was in AOG in Everett.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

Good question. The first and last person I have blocked on Facebook is an engineer.
I have no time for arrogance, ignorance etc etc. If I want to witness this I go on Parf. Life is too short for ignorance etc but thanks for designing some great cars!

This does not mean that all engineers are insufferable fools. Just some....

I have decided on the strength of the engineers' side on this thread that I should "like" my facebook engineer friend again arrogant or not. This thread truly shows that engineers are a highly educated collection of individuals. I eat my words above.
Engineers and proponents get a 10 and the naysayers zip.....

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Gearya,

I have a BS and and MBA, plus several professional licenses and certifications, how about you? I can prove mine to an independent person on the board, who can attest to them, how about you?

I am still waiting for this question that Hugh asked to be answered. I suspect it will be a long wait.

[cockerpunk]

we can;t tell you what engineers do, because like most things, its much easier and simpler then implied and if our bosses knew that, they wouldn't need us.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I am still waiting for this question that Hugh asked to be answered. I suspect it will be a long wait.

For someone that I'm yet to see do anything but troll, I suspect so.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Seven pages and there isn't an engineer here that can tell me what they do. Didn't read one post, just sayin'.

I am a composite (carbon fibre stuff) design engineer and design lightweight composite components and assemblies, sometimes I design without using composites.

Give me an engineering problem, the first thing I do is try to work out how big a box the boundaries are around the problem and then ricochet think my way around the full volume of box sometimes pushing on the side of the box and occasional putting a hole in the box until I either come up with a funky idea or shoot myself in the a$$,

Buckterrier, what do you do, just saying