EVIL ENGINE goes Twin Turbo - Your Chance to Design the 930tt Exhaust System

[RarlyL8]

You need to tell us more about this engine and car.

I need a couple more parts to continue the build.
They are:

930 CIS Fuel Head - any condition

930 Front Engine Tin - rusty is OK

Let me know what you have and what you need for it.
Thanks!

[RarlyL8]

Here's what we have so far.
The CIS is lacking a fuel head and I need the front 930 engine tin.
Please let me know of any leads on these items.

For serveral days now I have not heard a peep out of the fellow selling me the twin turbo heat exchangers. The last message I received stated that the items were ready to ship.

"Edit/Update" - I received an e-mail this morning , 11/19, and it looks like the exchangers are still a go. I'll keep you posted.

[unclebilly]

Originally posted by RarlyL8
That would be cool!
What information do you need?

I guess I'd need some type of drawings of the intake and exhaust (so I can get the geometry correct). We'll go to the throttle body (any further gets pretty complicated and likely wouldn't be accurate).

I can run a fan assumption for the turbo and blower so I'll need the over drive ratio on the turbos. I'm also going to need some RPM points. I'm thinking maybe 1000, 2500, 4000, and 5500. The other thing I'll need it some assumed EGTs.

[RarlyL8]

The intake system is stock 930 CIS, I can copy a picture from the Pelican schematics.
The turbos are stock 993tt K16s. I have a comression map for them somewhere. I'll look into it.
The engine will operate from idle to 7000rpm is that helps.
Thanks!

[Lukesportsman]

Brian,

If that falls through and if you'd want a look at my HE's let me know. Shipping shouldn't be that bad as small as they are. Sadly, looking at my progress.....I guess I'm not in a hurry

[Lukesportsman]

Brian,

If that falls through and if you'd want a look at my HE's let me know. Shipping shouldn't be that bad as small as they are. Sadly, looking at my progress.....I guess I'm not in a hurry

[RarlyL8]

Luke - can you post a picture of the 993tt heat exchangers? I have never seen a set all by themselves, only as part of the exhaust system.
I'd like to see exactly where it is they sit on the sides of the engine.

What will you do if you sell those exchangers? Going a different route?

[RarlyL8]

You all may remember a few months back the heat exchangers from ImagineAuto's monster came up for sale. A fellow in Australia ended up with the exhaust/turbo package and parted it out. I was fortunate enough to purchase the custom heat exchangers.

I have never purchased anything from overseas before and was very weary. In fact, I have never even purchased anything from e-bay before and did not have a paypal account.
Let me make this VERY long story short.
The seller walked me through the process and waited patiently for me to set up a wire account with my bank as well as a paypal account. He then arranged shipping from the east coast, where the parts were warehoused. At that point I ran into a snag. Because of the fool-proof way that I had funded my account there was a 3 day processing lag. I e-mailed the seller who told me "No sweat the parts are on the way. E-mail me when the transaction goes through". Now THAT is nice.

Now for a real zinger --- I had bashed this same guy several years ago for putting a suspicious looking 996tt engine on the classified board!

So hat's off to you John Good, you have gone above and beyond. Folks like you help make this board a safe haven for both buying and selling our often expensive parts.


Now for the goodies.
The Monster exchangers were made for Stephen's 993 based engine. Mine is a 930 so the flanges will have to be flipped. The exchangers will be off to Ben at M&K to have that done.

I'm not to crazy about the way these things stick out in the front. I want the turbos to tuck in tight to the motor. It looks like some extensive sawing grinding and welding are in the future.

Here are some pix. The turbos HAVE NOT BEEN CLOCKED so please ignore the outlet position.

[Joeaksa]

Rarely,

Bet your neighbours will love the stacks coming out of the turbo's... but its going to sound wicked on boost! I did a homebuilt turbo years ago and loved the car afterwards!

[Lukesportsman]

Brian:

Slow response, sorry. If you ever need a quick response.....PM me

Here are a few I have, I get anymore later as I'm home sick early...had to move the patients up and go get in bed. Sucks as its 62 today and 30 by Thursday for a high.

[Lukesportsman]

drugs are getting to me.......sorry for duplicate uploads

[RarlyL8]

Luke,
Sorry to hear you are under the weather. Looks like the bottom is going to fall out by weeks end.

Thank you for posting the pictures. Those exchangers look a lot like the 993s I have, they just exit in a different place. I see the flanges have not been flipped. Is your engine 993 based or do you plan to flip the flanges?
The driver's side 993 heat duct also hits the main engine oil line on a 930.

I am still on the fence concerning design. Rear mount is easier to plumb and does not interfere with engine access while side mount is tight against the motor but a PITA to plumb and interferes with everything.

The exchangers I just purchased may need some serious trimming. This bottom shot reveals just how far they jut out from the engine.

[Lukesportsman]

Wow those really hang out the back a ways. Wonder why Stephen did that???? Are you going to be able to run any muffler with those? Your rear bumper is likely toast, figuratively if not literally with proximity. What turbo flange is on those?

Refer to PM on how you'd like to deal with flipping and on borrowing. Send me your phone number and we can discuss or PM me. I just contacted Ben about may be sending one north to him.

When I get better this weekend, I'm going to roll under her and look at the oil line issues you've spoken of. My current chassis I'm working with is a 72' so this may play a role. Though its looking like this may end up in something other than the 72.

[RarlyL8]

A '72 should give you a unique advantage on the passenger's side. The oil tank and associated plumbing may not get in the way.

My engine is a 930 and has more oil lines than a N/A engine. On the passenger's side there are 3 lines that would interfere with side turbo placement. (1) the large main engine oil cooler to oil tank line (2) the front oil cooler return line and (3) the small turbo scavenge pump to oil tank line.

I have measured the distance from my rear engine mount to the outer most turbo housing to be 8 inches. That takes up a little more space than the stock muffler. There will be no room for mufflers with these exchangers which is why they were removed by the previous owner. I plan to contact Stephen about this, I don't recall that he chopped up the rear end of Monster but may be mistaken.
If I use them I will likely cut them down to tuck the turbos in closer to the engine. That will make plumbing tight, always a compromise.
Turbo flange fits a K16 (yes!)

I sent you a PM about the 993tt exchangers. I would like to try them but my budget (yea right) has been stretched too thin. The Monster exchangers are off to Ben tomorrow for a flange flipping.
(They are mounted temporary in the pictures).

[mic]

Brian:
I dont know if this helps but here is a pic of Stephen's motor mounted...


Thanks to your link, i am now reconsidering where i am going to place my TTs. I have a set of single turbo Billet design headers than I am thinking in modifying to support twin rear location turbos.
IMO: I still think that there is a better chance of mufflers if the turbos faced with the exhaust outlet inward as in MikeTheMechanic's (old) configuration..


I would consider doing a cross over exhaust configuration with 4" dia racing muffers. Since i now have Mikes I/C i might have less plumbing challanges with this configuration.

However, I dont like the way Mike had to cut the cross member to tuck the turbos in, but if one wanted to fabricate a different motor mount, then, i think you could add room for the turbos this way without modifying the bumper. In your case maybe the turbos are not as big and it would be possible. Personally, I am going with modified GT28s (T3 exhaust) with Vband.

[Lukesportsman]

Glad I got you into this thread Mic, Mike. Your photos or worthwhile.

[RarlyL8]

Thanks Mic!
I have e-mailed both Mike and Stephen before about their setups with no reply from either.
I would be especially interested in seeing how the the turbos and associated plumbing fit into the car. It appears that a lot of material must be cut out of the back of the car for them to fit. The turbos on Mike's engine actually interfered with the cross mount so the rear engine bay of the car must have been modified.
If you take a look at a stock 930 you see that everything is plumbed between the engine and the engine cross mount. There are rubber flaps that help seal the tin against the car body.
I absolutely will not cut up my engine bay. This system can be designed better than that.

Mic - Luke has offered to allow me to test fit the 993tt exchangers. If I do that I will post pictures of any interference areas that may be if interest. I will also do some careful measurements between the turbo placement and the available room in my car.

does any one have pictures of those specific areas?

Here is the stock 930 plumbing position. It's tight but works.

[tctnd]

Can't you just turn the shortys around so the flanges face each other then run the pipes (with or without siamesing) back to the turbos? I'm assuming you are still considering rear mounting. You can also align the turbo axes longitudinally if it makes plumbing or packaging simpler.
regards,
Phil

[RarlyL8]

Tried that Phil. The main engine line on the driver's side interferes.
I also need heat because we do a D/E in January every year. I have abandoned the shorty headers because of their lack of heat even though I love the simple design.

To address your second issue, the turbos can be better placed. I did that with a rig shown a page or so back. The question I have is why did the 2 engines shown above have designs that appear to compromise the rear structure of the car? There must be a reason for it. I have not yet began the plumbing phase of this project which may very well answer that question.

Thank you for your reply and questions. Without input it's just me chasing my tail.

[Lukesportsman]

I'll take that as a go, so I'll send it upto Ben this week for flipping and then ship them down to you. Let you know of progress.