Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils - Page 25

axl911 · axl911's Garage

For those that live in Dallas, I saw Brad Penn oil AND GM EOS at Zim's.

cnavarro · 11-21-2007, 05:08 PM

Factory approval has been discussed thoroughly. There are better 'approved' oils than m1. No where did Porsche put the "approved" oils in anything older than a 986/996 watercooled engine when they developed the approval sequence of tests, so it begs the question of how much they really thought about or cared about the longevity of our aircooled engines.

Also worth noting, that Porsche has slashed the 20k+/2 yr drain intervals on new Porsches (and old ones) using approved oils to 12k miles/1 year, which I imagine greatly has to do with the depletion of additives, among other considerations, with these new oils and long drain intervals.

I've been looking at the fixed drain intervals on my newer VW's calling for a VW 505.01 spec (which is more demanding than Porsche's requirements) in both of my cars, which so happen to take 12 quarts ea. On the w8 passat, after 5k miles, the oil was about 1/2 of the starting TBN. On the TDI touareg, after 3k miles, the TBN was also 1/2 of the starting level, which was quite shocking, since they call out for a 10k drain interval on these cars. UOA is cheap insurance and I recommend that all owners should invest in a 10 pk of testing kits with TBN analysis from Staveley to keep an eye on the performance of your lubricant and your engine's overall health.

cnavarro · 11-21-2007, 05:12 PM

Also, as late as '04, the owners manuals I have state an API SH or SJ oil.

Brad Penn is an API SJ oil.

rfuerst911sc · 11-22-2007, 04:12 AM

Yesterday I made a 1 1/2 hour drive to Tampa to pick up 3 cases of Brad Penn 20w50 at Neumann Oil. I had a chance to talk to the owner, he started Neumann Oil in 1961 as a Kendall distributor. He showed me an old photo of the refinery and told me the story of how the refinery was sold to the Brad Penn folks for $1.00. That's right one dollar. The seller ( I think he said Texaco ) didn't want anything to do with EPA clean up from the old site so they sold it for a buck to get out from the EPA clean up liability. Anyway I had a nice discussion about the Brad Penn oil with him, he stated his sales have been picking up as the word gets out about the CJ-4/SM oil. He agreed it's no good for older cars. I told him about this website and he just smiled. I'm going to do my first oil change soon with the BP oil, I don't plan on doing oil analysis at this time but I'm guessing it will work better then the Rotella T I'm currently useing. Happy Thanksgiving everyone !!!

Wavey · 11-22-2007, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickdm

Forgetting cost, is there an advantage to running the V-Twin synthetic over the Brad Penn?

Per C. Navarro:

"I will not however claim that Brad Penn makes horsepower - we've seen on the dyno Royal Purple, Mobil 1 V-Twin, and Amsoil Harley all make 8-18 more HP (on everything from a small four cylinder type 1 to a new factory Porsche Cup engine)."

cnavarro · 11-22-2007, 05:22 AM

My one only concern brought up to me by one of the builders I supply cylinders to is that the very high levels of Zn and P in m1 v-twin & mx4t MAY cause fouling of the 02 sensor and spark plugs and definately shouldn't be used on an engine with a cat, unless you visually inspect it for plugging. This would also go for any oils with levels as high OR with overboosting the Zn and P levels for anything more than break-in.

sithot · 11-22-2007, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryD

Sadly, yes, the factory approval for older cars is minimal at best. Then again, the factory seems to have set the air cooled crowd adrift....

I have nothing of value to add to this thread other than it's been worn out on diesel truck websites for a long time. Vintage motocycle crowd has been all over it for a good while too.

Same old story:

Time marches on; SSDD. "They" want your old cars off the road.

Brought to you by the same morons that think ethanol is a good idea just like MTBE was a good idea. Who elected these fools?

Tom

PS: for those riding pre-filtration (1970) BMW motorcycles your answer is Morris. No/low detergent oils perfect for sludge trap Beemers.
http://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/vintagemotoroils.html

cnavarro · 11-22-2007, 05:56 AM

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

I have something extra to be thankful for today, my daugher Elizabeth turns 2!

rickdm · 11-22-2007, 06:30 AM

Charles, thanks for your continued input and congratulations on your daughter's birthday.

Well, from what was said above, if I can pick up extra HP for $50/oil change more with Mobil 1 V-Twin I will take that any day. My car does not have a CAT or an O2 sensor, is mostly a track car with racing valve springs, so the extra Zn and P would come in handy. I see an indicated 220 degrees in extended track session, but I know spot temperatures will be higher and I assume the synthetic will be better able to tolerate that.

The other option is Redline, but your analysis did not give very high levels of Zn and P.

Gunter · Gunter's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by sithot

Thank you, Tree Huggers!

What trees?

Trees have either been clear-cut, are beetle infested or burn more easily mostly due to climate-change caused by increased greenhouse-gas emissions.

Of course, it's easier to stay in denial.

On with the show.

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunter

Trees have either been clear-cut, are beetle infested or burn more easily mostly due to climate-change caused by increased greenhouse-gas emissions.

Actually, we have more forest fire problems because the conservationists didn't realize that "protecting" wilderness from fire reduces nature's way of clearing dead lumber and keeping the forest healthy. Then, when there is a fire, there is so much kindling we have a problem that we can't control.
Also, as a Meteorology/Environmental Science major in college, it was pounded into my head that the Earth's cycles are measured in thousands or millions of years. Not a few decades! All of Big Al's hype over global warming flies in the face of this. But hey, its easier to be in denial and make a political name for one's self.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

can people stick to the topic please? it's especially ridiculous when the ill-informed post their crazy political agendas

Thrlls · 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

I have something extra to be thankful for today, my daugher Elizabeth turns 2!

Aloha Charles - Happy Birthday to your daughter!

And Happy Thanksgiving to all the PP members and their family!

Now as RWebb mentioned, let's stay on topic.

I'm looking forward to trying the BP oil in my 911, but would this 20w-50 work just as good in my BMW 318is?
I'm currently using Amsoil Euro 5w-40 in that car. Please keep in mind Hawaii really doesn't have much of a winter.

Dave Nordhoff · 11-22-2007, 06:59 PM

Thanks to this thread I have given up Kendall and gone green!
My first case.
Dave

cnavarro · 11-23-2007, 03:59 AM

Woody, if you wanted to keep using Amsoil in your BMW, just switch to their 5w40 HDEO Diesel oil, it's much more robust than the Euro formulation. Otherwise, Swepco or Brad Penn should also work just fine. When Brad Penn comes out with their 10w40 next spring, that will also be fine.

sithot · 11-23-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb

can people stick to the topic please? it's especially ridiculous when the ill-informed post their crazy political agendas

Coming from Oregon that is funny and quite ironic.

Best regards,

Tom

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

only to you; take it OT and leave this thread alone

sithot · 11-23-2007, 01:20 PM

Tom

Jim727 · 11-23-2007, 02:34 PM

Tom, how about taking this to OT and stop acting like a troll. That's what OT is for, and you'll find lots of people ready to engage in debate, thoughtful and otherwise. This is a thread to discuss oil.

I'll even say Please.

sithot · 11-23-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim727

Tom, how about taking this to OT and stop acting like a troll. That's what OT is for, and you'll find lots of people ready to engage in debate, thoughtful and otherwise. This is a thread to discuss oil.

I'll even say Please.

Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils (sounds like Dr. Strangelove)

You boys have picked all the fly sheeite out of the pepper.

I think Mr. Navarro has done excellent work. His research is excellent and alone it's about all that needs to be said. It is old news because it's been on his site for a good while now. It's been hashed and re-hashed on half a dozen websites regarding engines more expensive than a Porsche.

A wiped out camshaft is not at unusual occurrence if you've had any experience with internal combustion engines. I'd say if we're dealing with a reground cam or resurfaced tappets and you have your answer. Poor procedures with hard welding and hard chroming can spell disaster.
I've built my fair share of air cooled BMW engines and have never had any problems as the machine shop I use knows what they are doing and I don't use re-grinds. The tappets can be rebuilt utilizing proper procedures. Call one cam an anomaly.

Political agendas and evironmentalists are why you have to deal with this. That and the rest of the left coast tree huggers.

Never been called a troll. Much worse. That didn't hurt either.

Tom