Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[hcoles]

Charles, Don't worry yet... I've got BP on order just thought it would be handy to have some data in a table. I also need to figure out what to run in my 1999 BMW 328.. it specs M1 0w-40....what would you run? Can I also use the BP 20-50 or is it too thick? If/when BP comes out in 10-40 I'll probably go to that.

[WERK I]

Sorry to deviate off the M1 debate that has been going on, but in addition to being a proud owner of a Porsche air cooled engine , it is also turbocharged which adds some additional conditions to the mix.
In my previous post, I mentioned that I had a camshaft failure on two fronts. One from the coking of the oil on the turbocharger which lead to some spray bar orifices being clogged and secondly, the weak oil film in today's oils that lead to premature camshaft lobe/follower failure.
In my previous post, I mentioned I went to the Castrol Fully Synthetic oil with Crane Cams camshaft lube. The oil and additive have worked very well together for the past 2K miles. One drawback, too much foaming. I suspect the turbocharger sump pump is a contributor to the foaming.

Charles,
Have you seen the same thing with Castrol Synthetic or did the Crane Cam additive exacerbate the problem? Is there a synthetic oil that you can recommend that has low foaming characteristics, high ZDDP numbers, in a 20-50W?

Like others that have posted on this thread, I applaud Charles Navarro's work. If there was ever was a "Pelicanite of the Year Award", Charles should be the first in line to get it.

[cnavarro]

An aircooled engine can handle the thicker oils and can benefit from them, especially with higher localized oil temperatures than a modern water-cooled engine.

When it comes to newer water-cooled cars and manufacturer specific oil standards, it doesn't hurt to use a spec oil - you just need to shop around. I use Motul in both my new VWs because their 505.01 spec oil is an API SJ (or at least it was - I have enough stock to last me years).

If I had a new Porsche and wanted to use a Porsche spec oil, or even a BMW in your case, look at Elf, Motul, Fuchs, Pentosin, etc. and other what I call "specialty" lubricant manufacturers. They typically make one specific oil per standard, tailored to the needs of the engine it's going into. Also, keep an eye on the API specs - there are some 'approved' oils that are still API SJ or SL, where most have gone to SM for the ACEA approved manufacturer spec oils. Another thing to look at is all things equal, I would rather have a 5w40 over a 0w40 if the additives were the same - the 5w40 will tend to have a higher HTHS viscosity. Long life oils (for very long drain intervals) tend to have less Zn and P in them too, forwarned, as the Zn and P reacts with combustion byproducts to more quickly deplete the TBN of the oil, hence the desire for ash-less oils with alternative AW additives, like boron, coupled with more robust detergents, like Ca (calcium sulfonate) that tends to result in poor wear performance of the oils, as the Ca bonds to receptors on the metals surfaces rather than the AW additives. Trust me, this gets confusing.

[rickdm]

A buddy of mine was heading out to Zimms to buy some parts and I asked him to get me a case of the Brad Penn. He told me the guys at Zimms told him that they used to only sell only one oil; the Kendall green race oil. Now that it is back under the Brad Penn label that is what they are suggesting for all their air cooled customers. This oil is really catching on with many of the serious air cooled shops. Charles you should have bought some stock

[Thrlls]

I just got an email, my case of BP greenie is on it's way to the middle of the Pacific!

Mahalo Charles!

BTW: My 2001 M roadster called for 10w60, same as the M 5s and Aston Martins! However, it's made by Castrol.

[cnavarro]

Castrol TWS 10w60 is a phenomenal motor oil, but a bit lacking in P. It has plenty of Zn though. I actually have a bunch of it here - run it in my VW Squareback. Gives me great oil pressure and eliminated my oil consumption, on a 40 year old engine that has never been rebuilt with who knows how many miles. Rebuild in a bottle :-) In 911s with worn guides or low oil pressure, it has phenomenal results too! I had an old fiat that ate 1 qt of oil every 100 miles - switched it to TWS 10w60 and a bottle of EOS and the engine stopped smoking, using oil, and actually about doubled its fuel economy. It is formulated to put up with really high oil temps and rpms, as I've seen ///M engines run crazy oil temperatures (my buddy had an m3 a few years back). Granted, it's bloody expensive though and very hard to get :-)

[Thrlls]

Expensive is an understatement!
The dealer in Hawaii....the only one, sells it at $15 per qt. my CCA discount was good for $3. The car took 6 quarts, so just oil was $72 per change not counting the filter. I sold the car last year, and now I can get BP for my 911 @ $54 per case!
Mahalo Charles...YOU da Man!

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Thrlls

Expensive is an understatement!
The dealer in Hawaii....the only one, sells it at $15 per qt. my CCA discount was good for $3. The car took 6 quarts, so just oil was $72 per change not counting the filter. I sold the car last year, and now I can get BP for my 911 @ $54 per case!
Mahalo Charles...YOU da Man!

Woody, something is wrong. Your 911 should take 10-12 quarts per change. Do you drain both the sump and the tank?

[Thrlls]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Woody, something is wrong. Your 911 should take 10-12 quarts per change. Do you drain both the sump and the tank?

Sorry, didn't mean to miss communicate, but my BMW M roady took only 6 qts. my 911 takes the 11 - 12 qts. My point is my oil changes now are cheaper even though it takes twice as much oil.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Thrlls

Sorry, didn't mean to miss communicate, but my BMW M roady took only 6 qts. my 911 takes the 11 - 12 qts. My point is my oil changes now are cheaper even though it takes twice as much oil.

Ahhhh. I feel better now....

[movin]

Where can you get Castrol TWS 10w60, or is it RS 10W60? I can't find a dealer.

[cnavarro]

I run to my local BMW dealership when I need a few bottles, but it's ~$17 ea. I think it's different from the RS 10w60. The TWS bottle says BMW M3, M5, and Z8 on the back.

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by movin

Where can you get Castrol TWS 10w60, or is it RS 10W60? I can't find a dealer.

Google is your friend!

$9.95 per liter here:

http://www.************/fland.asp?part=07%2051%200%20009%20420&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googlebase&utm_source=07%2051%200%20009%20420

[cnavarro]

I only get four quarts at a time, which lasts about a year for the one car I use it in :-)

[billybek]

Wow, as a new owner of 83 SC, I appreciate all the effort Charles and all the other contributors have given to this topic.
Thanks very much!
Bill K

[cnavarro]

There is another good thread going over on Rennlist, with particular interest in the area of HDEO/mixed-fleet oils, like Rotella T or Delvac, in their CJ-4 revisions.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?p=4839469#post4839469

[Jandrews]

+1 for Charles getting the "Pelicanite of the Year" award! Thanks for your efforts and contibution here, Charles...it is very much appreciated.

Since you are a VW guy, what do you recommend for my 2.8 liter '99 Passat. It seems to "use" about a quart every 3,000 miles or so...not sure where it is going, because it doesn't leak or smoke. I have been using Rotella T 15w40 from Costco, but I don't think it is what it used to be.

While I'm here, I'll ask for specific recommendations on my other two vehicles as well. First is a '73 2.7 liter RS with MFI, and next is a custom big V-Twin chopper with 113" Ultima El Bruto engine. Can one oil serve all of these vehicles properly?

Thanks in advance!

JA

[tdatk]

I happened to be driving through Bradford Pennsylvania yesterday and the plant was going full tilt Same plant as the old Kendall brand.

[carnutzzz]

I don't believe this was posted, getting hard to tell at this point, but I thought this test was interesting.

Any comments?

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

[cnavarro]

That magazine posted a retraction after that was published as the testing was not valid for some reason, can't remember right now. Something about the inaccuracy of the test used or that the results aren't indicative of real world performance.

I have an original copy of that publication though, was very interesting to read nonetheless.