Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[Flieger]

Whatever. Castrol doesn't work well FOR ME. It gets very thin and runny quickly. I like the viscosity of the Brad Penn much better. And the fact that it stays nice and clear and green. The Castrol was all black and smelled of fuel. I am not going back. My oil pressure and temperature is better with Brad Penn and it even seemed to leak less.

I believe Charles when he said that despite the Zinc and Phosphorous in it, the base stock is not tough enough.

[theiceman]

I have read some of this with interest .. all i can add is my opinion .. had the top end of my car done at 90,000km .. i run only brad penn 20 /50 in the summer and 15/40 in the spring and fall .. I put in VR1 racing when i run out of b/p . i no whave 225,000kn onmy car and don't even burn a quart between 5,000km oil changes and runs like a dream .. just one data point but a data point none the less..

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

Ok...so after 1400 posts can we summarize?

low weight ( 10W-30) oils as they first went from SJ to SM lowered their ZDDP ant-wear additives to comply with long catalyst lif mandates..and to heck about long life to motors.

Then....20W-50 or any of the "diesel" oils ( 15W-40 Rotella, etc) were said not to require compliance to new laws even if SM rated.

Then it was said that "not necessarily" would the later SM diesel oils be high again in ZDDP...it's a voluntary matter from the oil manufacturer whether or not they comply with long catalyst life rules as it applies to their heavier, diesel oils.

Mobil 1 15W-50 went from SM low ZDDP ( early SM time frame) to higher ZDDP... later time frame.

My point?......

Is there some way we can make sense of all this by someone who really knows ....and at least post ( with a DATE stamp)...what the situation is today in some sort of cohesive summary ???? In addition, is it possible that alternative additives are now being added to supplement even low ZDDP oils to result in adequate wear protection? Do we know?

Frankly....trying to keep up with this...I lost you at the bakery.

Wil,

My head spins too.

Folks,

I can no longer edit the first post.

Some things to consider.

As some noted above, it is not just ZDDP but the entire package.

As you note, Brad-Penn, Valvoline VR-1, Kendall GT, many motorcycle oils, Shell Rotella, Exxon Delvac, Chevron Delo and the Botique (Redline, Motul etc) oils are all fine.

Mobil 1 may be a fine oil as well but due to their sporadic updating of formulations without notification and (in my mind) a failure to present their data in their Product Data Sheets (PDS) makes me wonder whats up. Given this lack of transparency, I prefer to deal with those who would prefer to update their data as things change.

Sadly 20W-50 oil is not all the same. If you need to be convinced, take a look at the Valvoline web site and compare their VR-1 20-50 with their "regular" product. The VR-1 has higher levels of ZDDP and a different additive package.

[kwikt 911]

VR1 20w50

[Wil Ferch]

VR1 20W-50 is good.

I've been a fan of the Shell Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic during the SL days and now am not so sure. Updates? Seems they have a few formulas in this range like T6 and something like tri-protection or whatnot. What's that all about?. Would like an update of all the 15W-40 diesel truck oils too ( Delo, Mineral oil Rotella 15W-40, etc).

Factoid....during the later 70's when Porsche didn't trust multi-viscosity oils....summer oils recommended were straight 30W. If you buy that today, you will notice none are SM and will likely have good ZDDP at a reasonable price, too.

[Karaya]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Nope, don't use aviation oils for street use.

I'm new here but I own a small Cessna and I concur. Do NOT use aviation oils for street use. For one thing, av oils are run at very constant rpms. The only time it's stressed is for the take off which lasts about 4-5 minutes at WOT at around 2,750 RPMs. Air temps are always cool except taxiing on the ground. I don't think av oil hold up to 5000 rpms sustained and beyond.

[SRT356/911]

By far, I think the best oil out there is SWEPCO. Southwestern Petroleum Corporation - SWEPCO

Been using it in racing applications for years. It is all that Jerry Woods/Smart Racing Smart Racing Products - Home of SmartStrings, SmartCamber, and other quality performance auto parts uses in their engines.

There are dealers everywhere, and a lot of weights. Jerry Woods is a dealer as well as others.

Swepco will ship your first order free. From then on to get free shipping a minimum charge is $500.

[911pcars]

Probably should remind that lubricants for racing, per say, are not necessarily optimized or recommended for normal street driving.

Sherwood

[SRT356/911]

Sherwood

While that may be true, SWEPCO is not a 'Racing Oil' only.

That can be seen by review of their website. I use SWEPCO exclusively in all of my vehicles, from daily drivers to tow vehicles to antique cars and race cars.

[dmwallace]

For those folks who have ordered SWEPCO direct from the company for the first order with free shipping and now need more, identifying the field service rep in your area might help you save shipping cost on reorders. I recently purchased a case from my area field rep who keeps some local inventory; we met in a shopping center parking lot at an interstate exit convenient to both of our locations.

From the web site:
To locate the field service representative nearest you, give us a call at 1.800.359.LUBE or email us at the address below. Send mail to lube@swepcousa.com

David

P.S. No company affliliation; just use the oil.

[SRT356/911]

David

Good point. I have a group that uses SWEPCO and I order for them, There are about 7 of us and when we are in need, I place the call. A typical order is in the range of 10 cases. The Swepco rep drops them at my house and when I see the folks they get their oil. We get5-30, 10-30, 15-40, and 20-50 as well as gear oil. The savings are huge.

Final cost is about $6/qt

[Por_sha911]

I'm not changing from Brad Penn but, I recently found Accel Motor Oil (produced by Warren Performance) at Wal-mart. It is labeled as SF grade multi-viscosity oil "for cars 1988 and older". Accel also sells semi-synthetic in lighter weights. Found this info on it:
http://www.wd-wpp.com/specsheet/accel002.pdf
No telling what the additive package is like. Thoughts?

[bsimonson]

I'm looking for a fitting oil for my 1980 911 SC (no cat) readily available here in Sweden (which rules out most discussed above). I've read parts of this thread and the LN Engineering article. Right now I have found three possible candidates but would appreciate any comments on each of these.

1. Mineral 20W50. Certification; API SJ/CF, ACEA A2/B2.

2. Semi-synt 10W40. Certification; API SL/SJ/CF, AECA A3/B3/B4, CCMC G5/Pd-2/D4, VW 500.00/505.00, BMW, Porsche.

3. Mineral 10W40. Certification; API SH/CD, AECA A2/B2, CCMC G4, VW 501.00/505.00, MB226.5.

From what I've understood each of these should be OK but are there any reasons to choose one before the others? The car is only used during the summer and late spring/early fall.

[AlfonsoR]

Originally Posted by bsimonson

I'm looking for a fitting oil for my 1980 911 SC (no cat) readily available here in Sweden (which rules out most discussed above). I've read parts of this thread and the LN Engineering article. Right now I have found three possible candidates but would appreciate any comments on each of these.

1. Mineral 20W50. Certification; API SJ/CF, ACEA A2/B2.

2. Semi-synt 10W40. Certification; API SL/SJ/CF, AECA A3/B3/B4, CCMC G5/Pd-2/D4, VW 500.00/505.00, BMW, Porsche.

3. Mineral 10W40. Certification; API SH/CD, AECA A2/B2, CCMC G4, VW 501.00/505.00, MB226.5.

From what I've understood each of these should be OK but are there any reasons to choose one before the others? The car is only used during the summer and late spring/early fall.

I don't know enough about the API designations to recommend any of the above. However, you could also e-mail Charles Navaro at LN engineering. He's a very nice guy, and I'm sure he would give you some good feedback.

[Wil Ferch]

The problem also is that common brand names and types don't translate well among the various countries. For example, USA allow highly refined type III mineral based oils to be labeled "fully synthetic"....whereas this wouldn't be allowed in other countries, where only PAO or similar true synthetic oils can be labelled "full synthetic". Because of this.....whatever brand name and type is recommended in one country may NOT follow in another country. Makes these decisions even more difficult.....

Later EDIT...changed PAG to PAO in my sentence above

[AlfonsoR]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

The problem also is that common brand names and types don't translate well among the various countries. For example, USA allow highly refined type III mineral based oils to be labeled "fully synthetic"....whereas this wouldn't be allowed in other countries, where only PAG or similar true synthetic oils can be labelled "full synthetic". Because of this.....whatever brand name and type is recommended in one country may NOT follow in another country. Makes these decisions even more difficult.....

You're right, it does make it more difficult. I believe LN eng does have data on a few european formulations, but if they don't, what do you do? Develop or test to get data.

You can always have a virgin sample of the oil you are considering, analyzed. Determine if it has the right composition based on the recommendations in this thread. If so, use and then re-analyze.

Bottom line is, a good maintenance regimen will include oil analysis. Even if you use a recommended oil, you need to use oil analysis to determine the best oil change frequency. You can then test once a year to get an idea of engine wear.

[bsimonson]

I mailed the company selling one of the oils mentioned above. Apperently they are in the process of updating their products so the ones I looked at are not yet available. They did, however, recommended one of their current products.

It is a mineral 15w-40 oil made for diesel engines. It has the following certifications, API CD/CE/CF-4/SG, ACEA E1/E2/A2/B2. They also sent me a list of additives (ppm):

Al 2
Fe 3
Cr 0,3
Ag 0
Cu 0
Ni 0,6
Ti 0
Pb 2,2
Sn 0
Mo 1
V 1
Si 11
Mg 496
Zn 1156
P 1219
Ca 1784
Na 2
B 0
K 4

It looks good to me, any comments?

Cheers, Björn

[cnavarro]

Nice balance of Zn/P to detergents, less Ca blended with Mg detergent, and a decent amount of anti-foaming agent (Si). Doesn't appear to have any friction modifiers either. Don't know what to say about the base stock itself though.

[Por_sha911]

Charles: based on your data I've been using Brad Penn 20W50 and am pleased. I had a slight bump in oil pressure, a slight bump in temp (maybe 10 degrees) and the oil coming out is much thicker than GTX. Recently, I witnessed a demonstration by a Schaeffer rep using a machine that tests lubricity. There seems to be significantly more lubrication with their S7000 oil with a ratio of 80% mineral and 20% PAO group 4. The rep claims that the difference is due to two items in their additive package: moly, and "Penetro" (their own brand of magical mystery additive). The price is between BP and Mobil 1.
So the question is: have you tested their oil? Tech Data: http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/705.pdf

[cnavarro]

Any machine that an oil rep uses to prove their oil is better is just false advertising. You can Google this. One such machine is a Timkin/Falex Bearing Tester. How the operator uses the machine (progression of loading from low to high) can skew results, favoring oils with high levels of EP additives.

I have not used any of Schaeffer's oils or tested it. I did test their Micron Moly additive and found it not to have much, if any, Moly. That's the limit of my experience with them.