I have made a set of PFC's for a DIY'er They Will Be Installed Reversing The Gases

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Bleedsblue

. . . (barring those whose career is installing HVAC in cabarets of course [Rawknees probably falls into that category, just sayin']).

Brent, now that is what I call an appropriate choice of words, right thar!

[universeman]

^^^ ha

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Bleedsblue

I can't help myself...

Post 216 has enlightened me to the real purpose of this system; it's clearly stated this is being installed in a cabaret, nullifying the opinions of every air cooled 911 a/c "expert" in this thread (barring those whose career is installing HVAC in cabarets of course [Rawknees probably falls into that category, just sayin']).

I will admit that although there may be nekkid wimmin on the walls on my garage, it does not actually qualify as a cabaret, despite my hopes.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

It's one thing to post "I have designed a/c alternatives that perform almost the same but might weigh less than what's already available" and another to say that one's new stuff blows everything else out of the water and then provide evidence to the contrary.

It's a third to claim that you are patent pending when your design existed beforehand. A search for "parallel flow" here on PP shows people dating back 11 or 12 YEARS that were running various curved, PFC condensers in the decklid.

Now, who wants some REAL revolutionary A/C updates!? I'm currently putting together a DUAL CONDENSER SETUP which AFAIK has never been done before....

2 993 condensers in series, WITH fans (Spal, of course), in TWO fenders!

Woah!!! People have done 1 993 part, and people ahve done duel keuhl stuff, and people have done zero condenser setups, but No ONE EVER has done 2 993 condensers. EVER. NEVER. EVER. NOPE.

I expect that I will be keeping other cars around me cool it'll be so efficient.

[tirwin]

One thing to consider with PFCs is that if any kind of debris gets introduced into the system (eg, compressor failure), it appears that the industry recommendation seems to be that the condenser must be replaced whereas the older tube and fin style can be flushed and re-used.

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by tirwin

One thing to consider with PFCs is that if any kind of debris gets introduced into the system (eg, compressor failure), it appears that the industry recommendation seems to be that the condenser must be replaced whereas the older tube and fin style can be flushed and re-used.

This was one of the downsides. IIRC, the other downside was that over time, they crack and leak. Supposedly, the really old style and the not so old but still old serpentine units do not fail this way.

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

It's a third to claim that you are patent pending when your design existed beforehand. A search for "parallel flow" here on PP shows people dating back 11 or 12 YEARS that were running various curved, PFC condensers in the decklid.

Now, who wants some REAL revolutionary A/C updates!? I'm currently putting together a DUAL CONDENSER SETUP which AFAIK has never been done before....

2 993 condensers in series, WITH fans (Spal, of course), in TWO fenders!

Woah!!! People have done 1 993 part, and people ahve done duel keuhl stuff, and people have done zero condenser setups, but No ONE EVER has done 2 993 condensers. EVER. NEVER. EVER. NOPE.

I expect that I will be keeping other cars around me cool it'll be so efficient.

I'm interested in this approach. Eliminate the front and decklid condensers? Or keep them? Which wheel wells get to swallow these condensers?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Corvus Corvax

I'm interested in this approach. Eliminate the front and decklid condensers? Or keep them? Which wheel wells get to swallow these condensers?

Eliminate the factory stuff. For sure the front fender left side, then probably the rear fender front side, unless the rear fender rear side works better. People have put the 993 condenser in all 3 locations, so I'll decide once I have it in hand with the fan mounted.

I have both a 10 inch Spal straight blade pusher and a 10 inch Spal curved blade puller coming, I'll decide which I prefer when they arrive and I can bench test them. The curved blade is quieter but weaker, and I know I'll need a pusher if I go in the very back location near the headers.

[KelogGes]

RONNE AND ERIC YOU HAVE BEEN banned permanently

YET YOUR STILL HERE WITH A NEW USER NAME

Black 993 Black 993
Administrator

Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 357

Quote:
Originally Posted by msort81 View Post
No it's not trivial. It's actually about where to post that content. Marketplace is not the joke forum and I would suggest not an appropriate venue for ongoing jokes about bestiality and lewd assignation that you find amusing. I stil struggle to understand why not take it to drivers lounge then those of us who don't want to wade through irrelevant marketplace content are not forced to.
Agree completely, and I suggested to Silber and Ronnie a while back that they're perfectly free to perform their routine in the OT forum, where they can waste as much of their lives as they want talking about sheep. But they didn't do that, because the point of their antics isn't actually to be funny -- the point is to annoy, frustrate, and troll everyone who is trying to use the forum for its intended purpose. I warned them to stop and even handed out temporary bans, but I guess they thought I didn't mean it. They're now banned permanently.

For the rest of the brat pack -- straighten up and fly right or you're next.
Old 04-08-2016, 05:24 PM
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[Rawknees'Turbo]

It's interesting that rather than answer questions regarding how he makes claims about his products that he is unable to substantiate, Kellogs chooses to spend his time sleuthing out the supposed forum activities of others . . . typical blowhard behavior, I guess.

AKA - derp (as noted above).

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Eliminate the factory stuff. For sure the front fender left side, then probably the rear fender front side, unless the rear fender rear side works better. People have put the 993 condenser in all 3 locations, so I'll decide once I have it in hand with the fan mounted.

I have both a 10 inch Spal straight blade pusher and a 10 inch Spal curved blade puller coming, I'll decide which I prefer when they arrive and I can bench test them. The curved blade is quieter but weaker, and I know I'll need a pusher if I go in the very back location near the headers.

I had considered doing the same thing. Doing the dual condenser thing in the wheel well, and eliminating the stock condensers. But let GTI do all the engineering for me. I like the idea of reducing some of the hose run. But really, the savings in hose would be small. The big benefit would be no heat dumped into the engine bay, and no clunky front blower. The idea of the upgrade is always in my mind.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

At some point, I want to do something similar - eliminate the tail condenser so I can run a full-bay intercooler, and the nose condenser so I can easily run a nose oil cooler.

Mike B., are you going to post about your dual 993 condenser build? Would definitely be intersting to read about.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by pazuzu

correct!

Correct!

Yes! But not how he does it...

My car came with an underbelly condenser and it was run, by design, as the first condenser. So, it was "reversing the gas" long before kellogg cereal showed up...but putting the tiny front condenser first, hoping it would do anything? Silly.

no you do not know how i do it apparently!!!

There are not four hoses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keep your belly pan condenser mentality that was practically useless due to asphalt road heat rise

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

^^^

At some point, I want to do something similar - eliminate the tail condenser so I can run a full-bay intercooler, and the nose condenser so I can easily run a nose oil cooler.

Mike B., are you going to post about your dual 993 condenser build? Would definitely be intersting to read about.

Might as well...but it's basically just taking everyone's engineering and sticking it together in a particularly messy way

It comes from the fact that I spent all of last year getting my system running all pretty like, buying the crimping tool, learning how to order too many fittings, designing a REVERSED GAS setup with the underbelly condenser that the PO had installed, doing all of the various sealing/upgrading/cleaning/insulating that you guys taught us...and ending up with a kick butt system than ran right around 39 degrees here in South Texas.

Right until they put a new speed bump in at work over the winter, one of the tall plastic bolt-down kinds. Trip #1 over the speedbump caught the underbelly condenser on the corner, Trip #2 ripped it open. Mind you, that thing had been there for about 12 years and never caught on anything...

So, now to RE-design the system using no underbelly condenser, which means moving away from factory stuff completely. Planning a clean shot from compressor to fender condenser #1 to fender condenser #2 to dryer to evaporator and back seems to be super efficient. Also, $100 993 condensers all day long? Yes please. More room in engine bay? Yes please. No front condenser hanging down tempting fate? Yes please. Lots of room in frunk near spare tire for tool bag and relocated mini-washer system? Yes please.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

no you do not know how i do it!!!

There are not four hoses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course not, there are 5, just like the factory. However, there is an extra 20 feet of hose.

I'll send you my belly pan condenser, so you can convert it to a PFC condenser that is big enough to air condition all of Miami.

[Corvus Corvax]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Of course not, there are 5, just like the factory. However, there is an extra 20 feet of hose.

I'll send you my belly pan condenser, so you can convert it to a PFC condenser that is big enough to air condition all of Miami.

Now, I know this is the tech forum, and all posts are supposed to have a certain gravitas, but that one made me snort. Nicely done.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Of course not, there are 5, just like the factory. However, there is an extra 20 feet of hose.

I'll send you my belly pan condenser, so you can convert it to a PFC condenser that is big enough to air condition all of Miami.

Mike HOWDY

I DON'T USE 5 HOSES EITHER!

don't send me your belly pan keep it maybe as a souvenir

instead bare with me and let me give you some good advice

I have/had a friend now dead named Gerry, that worked in the well known south Florida Porsche 30 plus years shop; I used to develop, engineer and test my 911 A/C inventions that had a 911 with an OEM 911 belly pan condenser; besides its oem front and rear condensers, that used R12 Freon. Which is a colder refrigerant than R134A. His 911 had every possible, what I call 911 a/c tips and tricks; done to it to make it cold, by the 4 or 5 expert Porsche mechanics that worked for the shop.

To make a very long story short; no matter how much his 911 was tweaked and tried to make cold by Porsche mechanic experts the belly pan condenser system was only a couple of degrees cooler.

TO BE HONEST AS I ALWAYS AM, 911 belly pan condenser’s ARE A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY, THEY ONLY LOWER AIR VENT TEMPS A COUPLE OF DEGREES and why Porsche quit using them!

Note I never worked on Gerry’s A/C system, he died just about the time just after , I started custom making & testing PFC’s for my 75 Carrera; after I got angry from sweating in my 911, and the obsolete OEM or aftermarket A/C condense technology available from anyone/everyone in the world, and decided to make my own. I DID THIS FOR MYSELF NOT TO MAKE MONEY

FYI Besides Gerry, I have talked about belly pan condensers with Butch Stokes, the original owner 30 years plus Porsche shop, extensively about this and other long term Porsche shops, including their long time senior mechanic’s I also know, about 911 A/C belly pan condensers and the condenses THEY DON’T make much of a difference!!

PFC front and rear condenser ARE THE KEY TO MAKING 911s COLD

I am not trying to sell you anything; I am trying to help you, your –probably on a budget check out ackits.com for universal parallel flow condenser (not painted aluminum) and/or ebay

And adapt them to fit your body cavities the largest size you can find that will fit

Note ACKIT.COM sells old technology that a couple of my competitors buy and resale to 911 owners that don't any better with a high markup

Also try a Google search
universal parallel flow condenser

these are all really cheap old technology or Chinese compared to mine,

mine all are state of the art custom designed specifically for 911s and when properly installed to produce air vent temps in the 30s F @ 95 degrees F Ambient

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Mike HOWDY

I DON'T USE 5 HOSES EITHER!

Yes you do.

Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser (REVERSE THE GAS YO!)
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser (REVERSE THE REVERSE!!)
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to dryer (BORING...)
Hose #4: Dryer to evaporator (PLEBEIAN...)
Hose #5: Evaporator to compressor (UGH, SO LAME!)

Please explain how you can do that with less than 5 hoses?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

TO BE HONEST AS I ALWAYS AM, 911 belly pan condenser’s ARE A WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY, THEY ONLY LOWER AIR VENT TEMPS A COUPLE OF DEGREES and why Porsche quit using them!

But...mine was FREE. Wouldn't you use (if you were being honest, as you always am), a free belly condenser that lowered vent temps a few degrees if you had the chance? I would, which is why I did. A few degree cooler vent temp for free is FAR better than expensive PFC condensers.

[DaveMcKenz]

Dear Reid,
Please explain your hose layout. You have five components in a circular arrangement. I think that requires five hoses or pipes. Maybe you have run pipes for the majority of the fore and aft runs.
Thanks
Dave