I have made a set of PFC's for a DIY'er They Will Be Installed Reversing The Gases

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

Dear Reid,
Please explain your hose layout. You have five components in a circular arrangement. I think that requires five hoses or pipes. Maybe you have run pipes for the majority of the fore and aft runs.
Thanks
Dave

Howdy Dave its been awhile

I think its best at this time to wait & let the this CAB DIY owner install proceed before I answer any questions ; or maybe NOT even publish the installation DUE TO THE ALL THE dissension !


However last year I posted here THE HOW

[Jack Olsen]

Guys -

I've deleted some argumentative/insulting posts. I have no idea why these AC threads make grown men act like children. If you disagree with one another, that's fine. But behave politely or you'll be banned from Pelican.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by jack olsen

guys -

i've deleted some argumentative/insulting posts. I have no idea why these ac threads make grown men act like children. If you disagree with one another, that's fine. But behave politely or you'll be banned from pelican.

Thank You Jack!!!

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Yes you do.

Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser (REVERSE THE GAS YO!)
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser (REVERSE THE REVERSE!!)
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to dryer (BORING...)
Hose #4: Dryer to evaporator (PLEBEIAN...)
Hose #5: Evaporator to compressor (UGH, SO LAME!)

Please explain how you can do that with less than 5 hoses?

Actually my current setup has 5 hoses as well, just in a slightly different order:
Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to evaporator
Hose #4: evaporator to accumulator/dryer (in engine compartment.
Hose #5: Dryer to compressor
In all I ordered 15ft of #10, 15ft of #8, and 15ft of #6 barrier hose, and I have some left over in each size. I haven't measured but it might be a good indication of the total length of hose used.
My system does not use a VTX but an orifice tube instead. This required some plumbing work around the evaporator that was tedious.
The idea of going from the compressor to the front condenser was to dump as much heat there instead of in the engine compartment. We'll see if this makes a difference once the car is up and running and my AC charged.
As they say: more than one way to skin a cat...

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by zippy_gg

Actually my current setup has 5 hoses as well, just in a slightly different order:
Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to evaporator
Hose #4: evaporator to accumulator/dryer (in engine compartment.
Hose #5: Dryer to compressor
In all I ordered 15ft of #10, 15ft of #8, and 15ft of #6 barrier hose, and I have some left over in each size. I haven't measured but it might be a good indication of the total length of hose used.
My system does not use a VTX but an orifice tube instead. This required some plumbing work around the evaporator that was tedious.
The idea of going from the compressor to the front condenser was to dump as much heat there instead of in the engine compartment. We'll see if this makes a difference once the car is up and running and my AC charged.
As they say: more than one way to skin a cat...

Gilles for clarification VTX is normally written as TXV for Thermal Expansion Valve

EXCELLENT POST

[tobluforu]

Oh man, how did I miss the beginning of the 2016 a/c thread? Shoot all the good stuff was deleted, I guess.

[KelogGes]

Dave this should answer your question before and make it clear

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by zippy_gg

As they say: more than one way to skin a cat...

Gilles, it will be fascinating to see the system performance numbers once you've completed the work (be interesting to compare to well built systems using "obsolete" componentry).

[DaveMcKenz]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Dave this should answer your question before and make it clear

Thanks. I understand now.
I look forward to see how it performs.

Thanks
Dave

[75 911s]

Originally Posted by tobluforu

Oh man, how did I miss the beginning of the 2016 a/c thread? Shoot all the good stuff was deleted, I guess.

Let's put it this way: I subscribed. I don't have A/C nor do I ever plan on having A/C

[Bleedsblue]

^In Vegas, no less? I drove through there in an old Saab w/ no A/C once and passed out in traffic, I bet the blacktop was 140 F.

I'll check back on this thread when concrete numbers are presented with proof. I don't care what direction the gas goes, if the vent temps can equal or better the "obsolete" tech, with less stuff or weight at a similar level of effort, I'll call it a success.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by zippy_gg

Actually my current setup has 5 hoses as well, just in a slightly different order:
Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to evaporator
Hose #4: evaporator to accumulator/dryer (in engine compartment.
Hose #5: Dryer to compressor
In all I ordered 15ft of #10, 15ft of #8, and 15ft of #6 barrier hose, and I have some left over in each size. I haven't measured but it might be a good indication of the total length of hose used.
My system does not use a VTX but an orifice tube instead. This required some plumbing work around the evaporator that was tedious.
The idea of going from the compressor to the front condenser was to dump as much heat there instead of in the engine compartment. We'll see if this makes a difference once the car is up and running and my AC charged.
As they say: more than one way to skin a cat...

Evaporator THEN dryer? That's new.

So, you do use 5 hoses despite his claims otherwise. I think we all understand why you are going to put the heaviest load on the non-engine condenser, but i think we're concerned that the small front one will just boil instead. I did the same with mine, but it was the underbelly condenser first, which did a good job of lowering the pressure for the engine bay one.


I can tell you that I used 22 ft of #6, 19 ft of #8 and 12 ft of #10 hose on mine. #8 from the compressor to underbelly condenser, #8 from underbelly to engine bay condenser, #6 from engine bay to front condenser, #6 from front to dryer, #6 from dryer to evaporator, and #10 from evaporator to compressor. You should run #8 between your condensers, since it will still be pressurized hot gas at that point.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by Bleedsblue

^In Vegas, no less? I drove through there in an old Saab w/ no A/C once and passed out in traffic, I bet the blacktop was 140 F.

I'll check back on this thread when concrete numbers are presented with proof. I don't care what direction the gas goes, if the vent temps can equal or better the "obsolete" tech, with less stuff or weight at a similar level of effort, I'll call it a success.

Asphalt absorbs and retains a lot of heat and then radiates it upwards 140 F is probably about right I guess, 911 belly pan condensers sit just a few inches above the road Asphalt in the hot sun and why they don't condense a/c gases very well; Porsche learned the hard way after spending millions

Here in south Florida where 95 F and above is a record ambient temp

@ 92 F for example here a 911 parked in the sun when you first open the door the temp inside will exceed 180 F

its severally Illegal here to leave children inside a car unattended because they die!

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Evaporator THEN dryer? That's new.

So, you do use 5 hoses despite his claims otherwise. I think we all understand why you are going to put the heaviest load on the non-engine condenser, but i think we're concerned that the small front one will just boil instead. I did the same with mine, but it was the underbelly condenser first, which did a good job of lowering the pressure for the engine bay one.


I can tell you that I used 22 ft of #6, 19 ft of #8 and 12 ft of #10 hose on mine. #8 from the compressor to underbelly condenser, #8 from underbelly to engine bay condenser, #6 from engine bay to front condenser, #6 from front to dryer, #6 from dryer to evaporator, and #10 from evaporator to compressor. You should run #8 between your condensers, since it will still be pressurized hot gas at that point.

Mike, I can review my diagram when I get home. I definitely used #8 between the condensers; I may have bought 2 x 15ft of #8 now that I think of it. I'll update the thread with the actual amount of #8 bought.
The reason I went from the evaporator to the accumulator/dryer was to ensure there is no liquid left before entering the compressor to avoid damage. It is the standard configuration when using a VOV valve instead of a TVX.

[DaveMcKenz]

Hi guys,
In spite of some cryptic responses, it seems Reid has designed a somewhat conventional a/c system with certain features:

1. It is an accumulator/VOV system rather than receiver/dryer w/TXV
2. It has very nice PF condensers placed in the stock 3.2 positions.
3. He has chosen to make the front condenser first in the gas stream, then the deck lid condenser. That has some potential advantages as well as disadvantages. BTW his front condenser/fan assembly appears to be very specifically designed for this application.
4. The rest of the system is unknown to me, maybe I have forgotten some details.

It seems entirely possible that these detailed features may be very efficient and well designed. If that is true, then I would not be surprised to see very good performance. In fact, if the performance is so excellent I would deduce that those details were likely responsible. Let's see what Giles and Kathy say, then we can analyze why it works so well or why it doesn't.

Thanks,
Dave

[KelogGes]

Note: You MUST USE an ACCUMULATOR TANK WITH an ORIFICE TUBE METERING DEVICE OR YOU WILL DAMAGE THE A/C COMPRESSOR !!!

a

[KelogGes]

Smart VOV Variable Orifice Valve

VOV Part 1: Interview with VOV inventor, Dick Kozinski

I am having Giles use a standard Smart VOV Variable Orifice Valve TO START WITH for initial a/c system testing

However I am probably going to switch the standard Smart VOV with a colder DESERT DUTY Smart VOV LATER ?

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by zippy_gg

Mike, I can review my diagram when I get home. I definitely used #8 between the condensers; I may have bought 2 x 15ft of #8 now that I think of it. I'll update the thread with the actual amount of #8 bought.
The reason I went from the evaporator to the accumulator/dryer was to ensure there is no liquid left before entering the compressor to avoid damage. It is the standard configuration when using a VOV valve instead of a TVX.

I found the invoice and so my order was 18 ft of #6, 18ft of #10, and 2 x 18 ft (36 ft) of #8.
Hose #1: Compressor to front PFC condenser #8
Hose #2: Front PFC condenser to rear PFC condenser #8
Hose #3: Rear PFC condenser to evaporator #6 with a #6 to #8 adapter
Hose #4: evaporator to accumulator/dryer (in engine compartment) #10
Hose #5: Dryer to compressor #10

[Rawknees'Turbo]

I've yet to see performance numbers from the KelogGes system that rival a well built system using a combination of tube and fin and serpentine condensers and evaporators (and with conventional gas routing); what is the advantage of this "new" technology? Less weight, and if so, how much less?

No harm in doing something differently, but how does "new" render the "old" obsolete if the new doesn't perform any better?



PS- not talking about you Gilles, and kudos to you for trying it, but am talking about the performance numbers that the OP has posted here and elsewhere.

[KelogGes]

Why don't you just wait until this is finished before opening your mouth