Bathroom remodel

[widebody911]

While the grout is curing, it's on to Phase II. The area 10" or so in front of the shower was also rotten,but it was on the other side of the joist, so today I ripped out the subfloor on that side and starting fitting mini joists. I would have had it buttoned up this afternoon but I brain-farted and cut one of the joists too short - d'oh!

[Kraftwerk]

Is there a coating you are supposed to put over the grout? Some kind of chemical sealant?
Anyway looks great. I will embark on my first tiling job soon and this has been nothing short of inspirational. Have to attack my tub area soon, it's totally ghetto.... Before and after shots will be in order.

[rnln]

Tile and grout sealant like liquid in the bottle is selling at Home Depot. Someone told me that thing would need to apply every year or so.
On many shower tile grout and kitchen counter tops, I have seen something looks like porcelain (exactly like your teeth). I have asked around but no one I that I know knows about this stuff. If anyone knows, please let me know.
Thanks.

[anderson111]

it is like a public bathroom

[Drisump]

I'm not going to go through the entire thread but I've been involved in many bathroom renos and in general, tiled showers are the most poorly executed item on the list. There are a few ways do do it right and and almost an infinite number of ways to do it wrong. When disassembling one of these I have found the base and it's seal to the walls and drain, to be a particularly poorly done step. You may want to investigate the Schluder system (I believe that is how it's spelled), it's a German company who have come up with many solutions to solve the problems associated with these showers. Quality and well engineered ....remind you of anything?
Ps. I have seen kitchens with laminate flooring that has survived for some years but the owners have to be very careful....personally I wouldn't, and a bathroom...not a chance. Wood floors are different (assuming not pre-finished), you have the option of putting a clear epoxy over the finish. Much like a finish on a wood strip canoe.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

Is there a coating you are supposed to put over the grout? Some kind of chemical sealant?
...

yes, grout sealer - the best ones are not water soluble and likely pretty toxic

hire somebody else to do it

[Garp]

Originally Posted by Drisump

I'm not going to go through the entire thread but I've been involved in many bathroom renos and in general, tiled showers are the most poorly executed item on the list. There are a few ways do do it right and and almost an infinite number of ways to do it wrong. When disassembling one of these I have found the base and it's seal to the walls and drain, to be a particularly poorly done step. You may want to investigate the Schluder system (I believe that is how it's spelled), it's a German company who have come up with many solutions to solve the problems associated with these showers. Quality and well engineered ....remind you of anything?
Ps. I have seen kitchens with laminate flooring that has survived for some years but the owners have to be very careful....personally I wouldn't, and a bathroom...not a chance. Wood floors are different (assuming not pre-finished), you have the option of putting a clear epoxy over the finish. Much like a finish on a wood strip canoe.

It's Schlueter (Schlüter) Schluter Systems - Homepage - Schluter-Systems and I agree it is the only way to go when making showers in a drywall environment.

[trekkor]

I agree it is the only way to go when making showers in a drywall environment.

No!

It's some new fangled method that is for people that do not want to do it correctly.
You cannot rely on thinset for waterproofing.

I do not trust their product and will NEVER use it.



KT

[Drisump]

QUOTE=trekkor;5998375]No!

It's some new fangled method that is for people that do not want to do it correctly.
You cannot rely on thinset for waterproofing.

I do not trust their product and will NEVER use it.


Trekkor I grant you that it's a new product ...at least here (North America) but it all makes [sense as opposed to many of the attempts I have ripped apart. The most effective method that we have used before was pouring a sloping concrete base and concrete curb with a rubber membrane under and up the walls (the hardi backer or other suitable wall board "flashing" the top of the membrane). In the Schlueter system, all of the joints or screw holes through the wall board are sealed with a tape and thinset.....and in theory could be primed with a Mapei product before tiling. To me, it seems about as bullet proof a job as I have seen.... but hell I'm open to new methods to improve quality. What do you do? I'm assuming you're in the business. I'm not a tiler, but I am a builder and we set up the tiler so all he has to do is tile. We are in the process right now of ripping out a one year old high end shower (that we didn't do) I have to say, it LOOKED great. Nice tiling job, beautiful custom shower enclosure (glass-glass corner) and very expensive Italian porcelain tile. The tile started lifting and I peeled off a couple to see how it was done....not good, wood curb, badly terminated membrane on curb, mastic adhesive, regular drywall behind the wall tiles.... the owner is choked to say the least. Pays to do it right the first time. So buddy, why so negative about the Schluter system?
KT[/QUOTE]

[trekkor]

My installations are all mortar. No backer boards.

Proper waterproofing, plumb and square.

The same way it has been done for decades without failure.

It takes extra time and effort, it's very hard work, but it will last a life time.
I'm in the middle of four shower installs right now.

In my opinion, using these 'time saving' methods is for the amateur.


KT

[widebody911]

Got the subfloor patch buttoned up this afternoon, and peeled off the layer of 1/2" plywood to which the old tile was attached. Thankfully they didn't just schlock it straight onto the subfloor itself! Tomorrow I'll install the hardibacker on the floor.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Drisump

QUOTE=trekkor;5998375]No!

It's some new fangled method that is for people that do not want to do it correctly.
You cannot rely on thinset for waterproofing.

I do not trust their product and will NEVER use it.


Trekkor I grant you that it's a new product ...at least here (North America) but it all makes [sense as opposed to many of the attempts I have ripped apart. The most effective method that we have used before was pouring a sloping concrete base and concrete curb with a rubber membrane under and up the walls (the hardi backer or other suitable wall board "flashing" the top of the membrane). In the Schlueter system, all of the joints or screw holes through the wall board are sealed with a tape and thinset.....and in theory could be primed with a Mapei product before tiling. To me, it seems about as bullet proof a job as I have seen.... but hell I'm open to new methods to improve quality. What do you do? I'm assuming you're in the business. I'm not a tiler, but I am a builder and we set up the tiler so all he has to do is tile. We are in the process right now of ripping out a one year old high end shower (that we didn't do) I have to say, it LOOKED great. Nice tiling job, beautiful custom shower enclosure (glass-glass corner) and very expensive Italian porcelain tile. The tile started lifting and I peeled off a couple to see how it was done....not good, wood curb, badly terminated membrane on curb, mastic adhesive, regular drywall behind the wall tiles.... the owner is choked to say the least. Pays to do it right the first time. So buddy, why so negative about the Schluter system?
KT

[/QUOTE]


That's not the old method's fault. it the dumb careless contractor's fault. Maybe the home owner's if they didn't hire a contractor. Mastic over Sheetrock in the shower? They watch too much DIY on TV. If not wood curb, what else would you use?


I am a general contractor. More then 50% of our projects are Kitchens and baths. We design and build them. No off the shelves stuff, We build all of our own cabinets. Like you, I have to make sure my subs are doing everything my way, not just industry standard or min code requirement. Overbuilding is our middle name.

I am all for new technology and new products, but they need to perform in the long run and not fail. There are so many new ways to save time on tile jobs, especially in the shower, that it scares me. I have ripped apart many fine and great showers that were build the old fashion way and they hold up really well. No leaks. I am with Trek on this one. We only float both the pan and wall and nothing else. No purchase off the shelf pans. Never. Let the tile man float it out and finish the job. I am not saving much by doing everything but set the tiles. Many times, our floors are floated. I go to many of the local builder's shows, including the big ones at Vegas, and not too many new products on tiling have really caught my attention.

[john70t]

Rejoice!
I'm seeing a dirt floor crawlspace. If no vapor barrier under that, then active ventilation with decent grading/drain tile is a must. Don't want that space to become a sweat lodge.

[Drisump]

Originally Posted by john70t

Rejoice!
I'm seeing a dirt floor crawlspace. If no vapor barrier under that, then active ventilation with decent grading/drain tile is a must. Don't want that space to become a sweat lodge.

Agreed

[Drisump]

That's not the old method's fault. it the dumb careless contractor's fault. Maybe the home owner's if they didn't hire a contractor. Mastic over Sheetrock in the shower? They watch too much DIY on TV. If not wood curb, what else would you use?
Hey Look, I'm not suggesting that this failure was "old school" only that respect has to be given to the unique shower environment, and it often isn't. We pour a concrete curb, won't be affected by water, stable, and strong. The wood curbs that I've taken apart, have cracks in the grout or splits in the caulking where the expansion and contraction of the wood has "worked" it over time. Cheers

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by john70t

Rejoice!
I'm seeing a dirt floor crawlspace. If no vapor barrier under that, then active ventilation with decent grading/drain tile is a must. Don't want that space to become a sweat lodge.

I'm not clear on this. There are lots of vents around the edge of the house, so this area gets ventilated. Are you suggesting I put a vapor barrier between the sub floor and the hardibacker?

[Drisump]

No, but normally when the ground is so close to your joists (like your pic illustrates) the ground should have a vapor barrier on it (usually with a skim coat or concrete floor but not always). You don't have a lot of room for air to circulate....at least in the area pictured. Hopefully the location of the crawl space vents allow no dead spots for air and your home is situated in an area that promotes air circulation. Cheers

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Drisump

That's not the old method's fault. it the dumb careless contractor's fault. Maybe the home owner's if they didn't hire a contractor. Mastic over Sheetrock in the shower? They watch too much DIY on TV. If not wood curb, what else would you use?
Hey Look, I'm not suggesting that this failure was "old school" only that respect has to be given to the unique shower environment, and it often isn't. We pour a concrete curb, won't be affected by water, stable, and strong. The wood curbs that I've taken apart, have cracks in the grout or splits in the caulking where the expansion and contraction of the wood has "worked" it over time. Cheers

concrete curb? How do you keep water penetration through the concrete into the sub floor? Concrete acts like a sponge and it will suck up water and retain it.

[Drisump]

There is a membrane under the concrete base and up the curb and walls. Any moisture soaking through the tile/grout/concrete is caught by the membrane and channeled to the drain. Cheers

[widebody911]

Got the hardibacker for the floor cut.