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first of all you shouldn't need threadlocker if using the right style plug, second, I don't think it will help anyway due to the high exhaust temps.
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:25 AM
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No...they should be the same ones the sponsor sells..NOT those damn pipe threaded ones....they call them grub screws and they have an allen head on them. They resemble a small grub, hence the name...I haven't seen the ones that Pelican sells....I got mine from a Porsche indy who in turn got them from a Mercedes dealer...and like I said before, they have locktite embedded in the last 1/8th inch or so of the threads so that they stay in. Nathan from UK used some that had a nut type head o them with a lip, and his fell out too. I originally used the SAE allen head pipe threaded ones, and that was a BIG mistake....they started falling out even after I re-torqued them...they still backed out after a couple hundred miles. Since I have the SSI heat exchangers, they cover access to two of the grub screws...so I ended up having to take off the damn heat exchanger to get to the point where I could replace the grub screws. Make sure you use locktite...or you'll end up like I did...extra work and embarrassment....one fell out when I was 50 miles from home so I drove home with it sounding like $hit all the way. It's always nice to be at a stoplight and having folks look over at your nicely shined up and spiffy Porsche that sounds like a lawnmower. You just look straight ahead and pray for the light to change.

RSmike: It does help to use locktite. I agree that the extreme temps do affect them, but the locktite seems to keep them from falling out. The grub screws go all the way in flush....and are tapered to fit tight.
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Last edited by Chuck Jones; 10-02-2008 at 11:28 AM..
Old 10-02-2008, 11:08 AM
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I haven't drove my car yet but I fitted the ones from IA. They have to be fitted with an allen key (I have a 3/8" drive set) and they have the shoulder. I was told by Stephen to use new sealing rings that seal the injectors to the heads.
A lot of people have had problems with there bungs!
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

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Old 10-02-2008, 01:44 PM
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Stephen should know...but I've heard that even the ones with the shoulder on them have come loose...they're really no big deal UNLESS they end up being the ones under the heat exchanger if you have an exchanger that covers them.

someone even posted a method for locking them in by drilling the lip and putting wire thru it like a sort of cotter key and wound it around a stationary post...dunno...these have been the most recurrent PIA for me. I'm hoping these mercedes grub screws do the trick. The indy i go to swears by them....and he mostly works on the turbos. Hope springs eternal....
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Last edited by Chuck Jones; 10-02-2008 at 07:28 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 10-02-2008, 03:01 PM
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Chuck, does your car pass emissions with the air pump & air injector lines removed?
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucittm View Post
Some pictures:

The removed air injection piping:
Mark
Here may be a stupid question, or a simple option. My 930, when I purchased it several years ago, came with an "air pump in a box". In other words, it had been removed by the previous owner and I'm using it as a boat anchor. But, the injection piping was left in place (see the picture) and simply plugged at the end of the spider. Saves all that effort of dropping the heat exchangers, finding the correct plugs for the heads, etc. Plus, re-installing back to stock would be much easier.
For me, it all seems to be working fine in this lazy-man configuration. Now don't tell me I've got a disaster about to happen!!!
Old 10-02-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
someone even posted a method for locking them in by drilling the lip and putting wire thru it like a sort of cotter key and wound it around a stationary post...dunno...these have been the most recurrent PIA for me. I'm hoping these mercedes grub screws do the trick. The indy i go to swears by them....and he mostly works on the turbos. Hope springs eternal....
The thread was called "those dam air injector plugs" and it covered a lot of ground on the plugs side of the air injection delete subject.
(I tried my hand at putting a link here but it didn't look correct.)

My solution was to lock-wire the plugs in place.
This is quite easy if your heads are off but not really practical otherwise.
I drilled 1.5mm hole through the head of the plugs and a 2.5mm hole through head fin close to the port then used some 1mm tie wire.
There are "proper" ways of lock-wiring when you are dealing with fasteners on critical joints, but for our application you don't need to be too fussy about following the rules. The main issue is to stop this little fkrs from unwinding and falling out.

The plugs I used are from our host ...
PEL-BRC-02 at $2.95 each "Air Injection Smog Pump Port Plug, sold per each, 911/911 Turbo 1975-83". They come with copper washers and fit all models, not just up to 1983.



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Old 10-02-2008, 04:29 PM
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Pass emissions?.....Ummmmm....let's see...where did I put that copy of the Constitution that has the 5th Amendment printed in it?

I bought an almost new cat and muffler from someone on eBay....and I have to retro the car back to stock to pass emissions. This is a once every two year event....and it's no fun. The nonsensical part of this is that it runs better and somewhat cleaner with the upgraded parts, but without the cat converter....you're flat out of luck...

I left the air pump in place with the belt on it...a little less to put back together.
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1987 factory Slantnosed 930 Cabriolet/Guard's red
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Last edited by Chuck Jones; 10-02-2008 at 07:33 PM..
Old 10-02-2008, 07:24 PM
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I'm going to attach a picture of the 914 caliper plugs (used as SAI plugs on 911 /930 cars) and the stainless version sold and branded as Weltmeister. I tried the 914 caliper plugs initially and was not happy with the hardness of the steel. They are mild steel plated with blue zinc. I decided against these after testing them out and ordered the stainless hex plugs instead. I'm much happier installing these into a 930 due to the harsh heat / exhaust contaminents they will see... Also, nothing against the way billjam did it but the plugs are not safteywired properly... The anchor point of the wire needs to be opposite the direction you turn the bolt or nut to unscrew it. This is a perfect example of using the right chemical for the job. Much like the right tool, the right chemical compound makes the job 100 times easier. Applying Resbond 907 Red Thread Locking agent / pipe sealer on the plugs will prevent them from coming out on their own.

Please click on the pic for full resolutuion.



hope this helps those looking to make a decision on which plugs to buy.
Old 10-03-2008, 02:23 PM
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Looks like I have the Weltmeister ones but I didn't get any copper washers with them. The factory used rings, not washers to seal the air injectors in.

I think Billjam just didn't want to lose the plugs.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 10-04-2008, 01:32 AM
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Ok so I pulled a bunch of stuff off mine but won't get to the injectors until winter.. So my question is what do you guys plug the hoses with ? Seems like the easiest way to go..
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Old 10-11-2008, 06:03 PM
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Maryland metric sells the plugs....

for $0.50 apiece and $0.15 per copper washer.. I have had them in for two years...Note I dont track my car.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:03 PM
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can anyone recommend another hi temp loctite to use on the plugs when removing the air injectors?
Old 02-26-2009, 04:30 PM
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I'm sorry but 2100 degree loctite is probably the highest temp stuff I could find... Good luck trying to find anything that is higher temp! If you are confused try reading my previous post and clicking on the picture.
Old 02-26-2009, 06:13 PM
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Keeping the air injection?

Has anyone considering keeping the air injection for between shift anti-lag? My motorsports background is rallying. Many of Lancer Evo 5 & 6's (Toyota celica all-trac) had an air injection manifolds with a one way check valve connected to the dump valve. When the anti-lag was armed the ecu would use the dump valve connected to air injectors to dump all excess boost pressure to the hot of side of the turbo between shifts or throttle lift. The excess air would help burn excess fuel and keep the turbo spooled. Of course the rally car would also retard the ignition also so that unburned fuel would enter the manifold but just dumping the excess air works fairly well without destroying the exhaust like a full-on anti-lag does. I guess this might require EFI conversion, CSI may dump excess fuel.

Scott

Flame away, it was just a thought.

Last edited by sparrott; 02-26-2009 at 06:50 PM.. Reason: Finish post
Old 02-26-2009, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrott View Post
Has anyone considering keeping the air injection for between shift anti-lag? My motorsports background is rallying. Many of Lancer Evo 5 & 6's (Toyota celica all-trac) had an air injection manifolds with a one way check valve connected to the dump valve. When the anti-lag was armed the ecu would use the dump valve connected to air injectors to dump all excess boost pressure to the hot of side of the turbo between shifts or throttle lift. The excess air would help burn excess fuel and keep the turbo spooled. Of course the rally car would also retard the ignition also so that unburned fuel would enter the manifold but just dumping the excess air works fairly well without destroying the exhaust like a full-on anti-lag does. I guess this might require EFI conversion, CSI may dump excess fuel.

Scott

Flame away, it was just a thought.
This came up on Rennlist and supposedly some of the turbo race cars were done this way. However it was thought to do nothing to help turbo longevity. I think the idea was abandoned for a streetcar.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:40 PM
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dump valve

The longevity issue is not as big as deal in respect to longevity if you are only dumping the excess boost pressure without fuel enrichment and ignition retard. The main issue is if there is over-excessive fuel then there are some serious shock waves as in the full ant-lag. The full motorsports anti-lag retards ignition to past TDC, dumps enrichment fuel and dumps alot of air around the throttle plate making large explosions that would require hearty exhaust valves and ceramic turbine parts. The dump valve only method actually helps pump cooler air through the turbo when the motor coasts with the throttle closed.

Scott
Old 02-26-2009, 07:55 PM
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re:

The best setup I think would be dual dump valves selected with a vacuum solenoid pressyre reference, so a person could select the traditional dump valve that recirculates and the one that dumps to air injectors for those just in case moments. It does make a substantial difference in acceleration times.

Scott
Old 02-26-2009, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-man930 View Post
I'm going to attach a picture of the 914 caliper plugs (used as SAI plugs on 911 /930 cars) and the stainless version sold and branded as Weltmeister. I tried the 914 caliper plugs initially and was not happy with the hardness of the steel. They are mild steel plated with blue zinc. I decided against these after testing them out and ordered the stainless hex plugs instead. I'm much happier installing these into a 930 due to the harsh heat / exhaust contaminents they will see... Also, nothing against the way billjam did it but the plugs are not safteywired properly... The anchor point of the wire needs to be opposite the direction you turn the bolt or nut to unscrew it. This is a perfect example of using the right chemical for the job. Much like the right tool, the right chemical compound makes the job 100 times easier. Applying Resbond 907 Red Thread Locking agent / pipe sealer on the plugs will prevent them from coming out on their own.

Please click on the pic for full resolutuion.



hope this helps those looking to make a decision on which plugs to buy.
Where did you purchase the Resbond stuff. I am the original poster of the "dam injector plug" thread menstioned and this has been a recurring problem for me as well. I do track the car and it mostly happens at DE days. I looked into high temp loctites and there is no vendor that will sell it retail. Grainger and Loctite only sell wholesale and you aint gonna find this stuff at Autozone.
Safety wire is best but damn it is tuff to do with the engine in the car....plis drilling thru those small plugs aint easy either.
Thanks for any input.
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Old 02-27-2009, 06:14 AM
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Any reason why I shouldn't have the the air injection system permanently removed during my current engine rebuild? I have B & B headers/exhaust system and a K27/7200 turbo on the car now, and see no reason why I can't have the extra weight taken off and have the engine holes plugged. I'll have the mechanic put the parts in a box in case a future owner wants to "restore" the exhaust system.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:35 AM
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