964 3.3 Turbo EFI Conversion using Syvecs (Life Racing) Engine Management

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by 304065

That looks pretty good. . .don't paint it Spencer! Just touch it up.

Too late!!... I got up early this morning (am on vacation for 3 days, spending time with my daughter), and got it painted whilst the sun was out.

Have sprayed 2x coats of colour, plus 2x clear....Done a really good job, it's come up very well indeed for a non-sprayer, however, I'm not so happy with the paint colour, it's darker than the original, dammit, despite being made to the Horizon Blue paint code (I guess like most codes, there are 5-6 tints to select from).

....and Lucy and I have removed all the masking now, so back to square 1, minus any cleaning up. Again, I question whether I'm making too much of this, as 95% of it will be hidden from view anyway, under the huge intercooler. By the time fuel pump/filter is fitted, PS reservoir, the panel that'll mount the ignition amps, plus all the other sundry items, I can't imagine that there's much that is visible, certainly by comparison to your car John? The main thing is that all areas where the paint had been compromised and exposed to weather, have now been corrected and etch-primed before repainting, so a good job done in terms of preventative maintenance.

....hmmm....something else to agonise over tonight

[Spenny_b]

Agonising "done"....repaint it is....damn the OCD....

A trip back to the paint factors, much discussion and trialing to get the mix correct (apparently Horizon Blue does only have the one tint listed). The second attempt still came out waaay too purple, so time to look at other colour charts. Think we've found a very close match to the headlight rim I took in as a sample. At $25/can, I hope this one's going to come out ok. So, once daughter was in bed, another evening masking the engine bay in readiness for a sunny morning tomorrow. I hope.

Headlights back together and installed...but hell those trim rings are a pig to get back on; as though they're just too small, but from what I've read, it's likely to be the new gaskets that are making it tricky. Another attempt in between coats of paint in the morning.

Hoping that tomorrow evening the oil lines/thermostat/tank can be refitted, possibly also the cooler and other stuff that lives in the front right wheel arch as well.

[TurboKraft]

0211 -- no sleep for the wicked!

[Spenny_b]

Ah I don't know about that Chris!

It ended up being another >3am finish, the trouble is, the brain is still wired but the body is exhausted, otherwise I'd be a little more productive with getting stuff done, haha.

[Spenny_b]

Success!

Ok, now I've got the paint as I want it, I'll share some photos.

Following on from the previous pics showing the cleaned but unsprayed engine bay, next step was to spend time (a lot of time) masking everything. I was originally only going to respray the lower part of the bay, but as you can see, the colour difference was just ridiculous.







....so, time to do what I should've done to start with; re-configure some of the masking, remove a load more fittings and spray the inside of the wings -->



Nice colour. Pity it's on the wrong car.

I don't know why, but Lucy and I decided to remove the masking. I guess I was hoping that once the paper was removed, it wouldn't be so bad. Nope. Time to mask up again last night, then get the car outside this morning to respray with the new paint.

A LOT better (imho). I also got a different brand of clear lacquer, which the guy at the paint shop said was a better formula. I know Porsche didn't finish the paint with a gloss finish, but have to say, by deliberately spraying it quite "wet" I'm really happy with how it came out. It'll be a damn sight easier to keep clean, and looks more "finished".







Masking now removed again -->





Of course, well worth spending the time to mask accurately, no overspray to clean off and I've also managed to retain the finish on the tops of the damper turrets, where the factory finish was unpainted where the damper mounts bolt to the chassis (you can just about see it in the pics)

Next job tomorrow night is cleaning of the pipework and harnesses, refit the various pipe and loom clips, re-attach the ground straps/wires, install grommets and oil pipework....all easy stuff.

Going slower than anticipated, none of the oil pipes/tank/thermostat are yet in, but hey, glad I redid the paint.

[304065]

That is a good use for the Daily Mail...

[Spenny_b]

One of two possible uses! "String ties" and "outhouse" spring to mind as the other.....my Parents being the Mail readers, not me...not me

[Spenny_b]

Ok folks, so I'll post another update later on in the weekend....there'll be some progress on Sunday (weekend to myself); tomorrow it's time to re-visit Santa Pod after what must be almost a 20yr absence, to go and see the final round of the FIA European Finals drag racing....one of those bucket list events to go and see, as I've never seen first-hand the awesomeness of God-knows-how-many-thousand horsepower weaponing itself up the track!

Talking of mega horsepower, I received this email earlier.....



I guess Mr Noble must've heard about my project, haha!

Now, I'm not a great Twitterer, but I may get back into it, so if anyone wants to follow, I'm @spenny_b ....hmm, now that'll be two things to keep updated.

[Spenny_b]

Ok, hands-up, not a tremendous amount of progress...plan change yesterday, ended up running around getting some parts from my OPC, just some spire clips and returning a mistakenly ordered headlight gasket....trouble is, it's good 3-3.5hr return trip, therefore taking most of the morning....but, I did get to go over in the Lotus, which was well worth justifying not just getting them posted to me

Got the wiring in the engine bay all cleaned up and treated to protect is long-term. Re-fitted some of the items I needed to remove in order to respray the bay last weekend. I also took some time to fully clean up the welded on studs/screws that are used to hold on the rocker trim, wheel arch trims, etc....they had gone quite rusty, so well worth using the wire brush and some Kurust to rid the last remnants, before etch priming and top-coating. Stupid detail stuff that takes daft amounts of time, but you can never do enough preventative maintenance, eh?

Now....onto the good stuff. Not related to this project, but it's been one of those amazing days, you have to pinch yourself to ensure it's actually happened!

A 4.30am wake up for a 5am departure, to get up to the Santa Pod raceway in good time, beating the queues. This was the event running over the weekend

Seeing Top Fuel for the first time is simply breathtaking....not just "impressive" but frankly, terrifying. After witnessing one of the teams fire up for warming, then unexpectedly blipping the throttle, I have NEVER known anything like it. Like somebody kicking you in the chest, then smacking you around the ears. Myself and about 100 other bystanders literally jumped out of our skin, and I was standing about 20-30yds away from their awning. I've witnessed some bloody loud racecars over the years, WEC Corvettes @ Le Mans down the Mulsanne make a nice racket, but this was another league, or 5, above. Still makes me chuckle just typing about it.

The day then turned into one of those days that is full of stuff you just don't expect, or have never witnessed/seen before....

1. The aforementioned Top Fuel incident
2. Catching up with a mate from 11-12yrs ago, not seen him since I moved away from the area, but who now works for Santa Pod.....very cool!
3. Seeing a Hawker Hunter perform its flyover to open the show...very low level
4. Seeing a DeLorean driving past me on the way home (never seen one on the road before)
5. Seeing a Lamborghini Espada on the same journey
6. Seeing (very briefly) a McLaren P1 driving the other way (!)
7. Seeing a Spitfire perform its flyover at the end of the racing...another very low set of passes, superb sounding RR Merlin
8. Seeing one of the Top Fuel bikes crashing, then somehow the rider landing on the wheelie bars of his opponent for a hitched ride over the line...very bizarre

But I'm guessing you're currently thinking that this has nothing to do with the Engine Rebuild forum, yes?....Bear with me.....

Perhaps the most awesome moment of the day, certainly with respect to this Forum, was when I walked past the pits garage for the Anderson Racing team, who's Thomas Nataas was leading the Top Fuel championship up until today (he's now secured the championship).



I literally bumped into a table down the side of the pits with a whole bunch of used engine parts....spark plugs, bearing shells, a conrod and a piston....and then a piston+conrod still intact. This was all removed moments before, in one of the usual quick turnaround rebuilds....and was now for sale!

So...I got me one of these --->









ARP Rod Bolts....good enough for them, then certainly good enough for me!



And it's pretty weighty --->



Awesome piece of machinery. Their engines are pushing >9,000hp, so this piston has seen over 1,125hp alone! Astounding. After I bought it, these guys then went on to win the event, so has some genuine heritage.

Anyone want to take a guess how much I paid for it?.....





....go on, bet you can't!........







£25 ($40)!!!

New desk ornament coming right up

Some other facts I found out today; each cylinders exhaust pushes out approx 200lb of pressure on full chat, which is then used by the shaping of the headers (the upwards kick) to generate downforce, hence when a cylinder goes down, you often see the cars skew, as the L>R balance is suddenly changed. I think I remember correctly where each cylinder also has the equivalent of a domestic power-showers worth of fuel delivery, in terms of volume. Fuel rails are a combination of traditional external and also a rail that runs through the head, mad. One warm-up and run uses 14-15 gallons of fuel, hence the 2x stupidly big "magnetos" to try and explode the stuff! The supercharger used on these lumps requires 700-800hp alone to turn it! Thus an F1 engine is only just powerful enough to spin it over at the correct speed.

Anyway, that's why I've not got much done this weekend (and now I feel like a schoolkid apologising for not doing their homework)

[304065]

No apologies for either the diversion or the non-Porsche content necessary!

Do you think they throw away the conrod and piston after a single pass?

[jsveb]

Sounds like a great experience.

I had something similar this Saturday. I went to an engine shop to have them inspect a turbo I've bought. Though I new the engine shop is the kind with no signs -It just lives on reputation, and the son of the owner works for pro teams, I had no idea what I was abut to witness.

I saw can am, Indy, and F1 engines with bigaazz turbos on them. Old race tubs and a lot of stuff I can't remember to include fascinating engines I don't even know what is. The som of the owner is father to my sons classmate, he gave me the grand tour. Amazing to see how they did everything the old way, and all the way. Super impressive.
Unfortunate they were also able to tell me that my newly purchased turbo was shot, which I more than suspected, just needed a second second opinion.

Thanks for the post Spenny.

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by 304065

No apologies for either the diversion or the non-Porsche content necessary!

Do you think they throw away the conrod and piston after a single pass?

Haha, thanks John; if you're going to not get stuff done, then I guess it's more excusable than sitting in front of the TV all day!

Re single pass rebuilds, I was wondering that and stupidly forgot to ask the team boss guy who I was buying this from. I know it's rod #7 as it's stamped into the rod and the cap, then on the underside it has 6 x centre dots...but I can't imagine it's done 6x runs either.

The rebuild I watched the team perform was post semi-final, scrambling to get it done in time for the final an hour later. Impressive.

I'll ask my pal who works up there, and post the answer

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by jsveb

Sounds like a great experience.

I had something similar this Saturday. I went to an engine shop to have them inspect a turbo I've bought. Though I new the engine shop is the kind with no signs -It just lives on reputation, and the son of the owner works for pro teams, I had no idea what I was abut to witness.

I saw can am, Indy, and F1 engines with bigaazz turbos on them. Old race tubs and a lot of stuff I can't remember to include fascinating engines I don't even know what is. The som of the owner is father to my sons classmate, he gave me the grand tour. Amazing to see how they did everything the old way, and all the way. Super impressive.
Unfortunate they were also able to tell me that my newly purchased turbo was shot, which I more than suspected, just needed a second second opinion.

Thanks for the post Spenny.

Hey no probs Jesper!

Sounds like a father that you need to become best beer friends with! Wow, what a find.

We should start another thread along the lines of "really cool stuff that you really weren't expecting to see", see what turns up out of the woodwork Similar to you, but on a smaller scale, I was walking across town a few months ago to my parents house, past a local traditional looking garage that tends to look after lots of cool Astons, Jensons, Porsches, Jags, RR's. Parked outside that evening was his race shuttle trailer...in which was his Fittipaldi F1 car! A year or so later I was walking past again, he was loading up the wagon ready for a test session.....now with a Williams FW07 in there!!....wasn't expecting that! (he races in the FIA Historic F1 championship).

Have you got any pics from your find? Shame that the turbo was cooked though.

S

[safe]

Originally Posted by Spenny_b

Some other facts I found out today; each cylinders exhaust pushes out approx 200lb of pressure on full chat, which is then used by the shaping of the headers (the upwards kick) to generate downforce, hence when a cylinder goes down, you often see the cars skew, as the L>R balance is suddenly changed. I think I remember correctly where each cylinder also has the equivalent of a domestic power-showers worth of fuel delivery, in terms of volume. Fuel rails are a combination of traditional external and also a rail that runs through the head, mad. One warm-up and run uses 14-15 gallons of fuel, hence the 2x stupidly big "magnetos" to try and explode the stuff! The supercharger used on these lumps requires 700-800hp alone to turn it! Thus an F1 engine is only just powerful enough to spin it over at the correct speed.

Is it aluminium rod?

Read somewhere that the engine only turns ~400 revolutions in a pass.
So each rod doesn't take many power strokes (sounds kinky...) if they get swapped after one run!

[Spenny_b]

Very good article with an in-depth on the Nitro engines.... Inside 10,000 HP

Yup, the rods are aluminium to help save the crank, absorbs the load better than steel/Ti.

Magnus....your countrymen were many and loud yesterday! Great to see, lots of flag waving with many drivers to support. The event was packed.

400 revolutions per pass? Can't believe that, they fire-up about a minute and a half before the "Go", including the warm-up burnout...not read far enough into the above article to find out the peak rpm, but it's high....damn high!

@John...it's a rebuild after every pass. Gulp.

[safe]

Originally Posted by Spenny_b

Magnus....your countrymen were many and loud yesterday! Great to see, lots of flag waving with many drivers to support. The event was packed.

400 revolutions per pass? Can't believe that, they fire-up about a minute and a half before the "Go", including the warm-up burnout...not read far enough into the above article to find out the peak rpm, but it's high....damn high!

Nice to hear, I missed the race on TV, I was off to the local track getting a little seat time myself in my Targa.
I just wish that he could get a few good results so he'll get a drive next year. We have waited too long for a Swede in F1 again.

I think the 400 revolutions was only for the actual 1/4 mile run, not including warm up etc.

[Spenny_b]

Originally Posted by safe

Nice to hear, I missed the race on TV, I was off to the local track getting a little seat time myself in my Targa.
I just wish that he could get a few good results so he'll get a drive next year. We have waited too long for a Swede in F1 again.

I think the 400 revolutions was only for the actual 1/4 mile run, not including warm up etc.

Actually, I was referring to the number of Swedes at the drag racing, supporting many Swedish drivers, rather than the F1....I recorded it yesterday, but not watched it yet.

Actually, working the numbers backwards (crudely) and reading that article, the peak rpm is 8,400, it dips down to 7,000'ish once they launch, then climbs back towards the end. Call it 7,700 average rpm, approx 128rpm/s, for 4 secs = 513rpm....so not a million miles off. Deceptive, and as the article says, "I'm not sure whether to be more impressed with the crank's ability to withstand 30 seconds of wide-open throttle, or the engine torque's ability to waste a crank in 30 seconds."....same for the pistons/rods, except for 4sec of WOT! Just awesome.

No idea what they do under burn-out conditions, but nowhere near the same power (Fuel delivery retard? Boost reduction? Cylinder cut?) judging by the dB.

[Spenny_b]

Can't remember which class this was running in, Super Gasser perhaps?

Nice level of engineering though....just get a look at those turbos, and the pipework to/from!







Also, a good shot of these boys and their EGT measurements. Doing similar on mine, albeit only on the secondaries pre-turbo....if funds and ECU inputs permitted (they don't, in both cases!) then it'd be great to place an EGT sensor on each primary. --->

[Spenny_b]

Ok back on track....Question to folk before I finally bolt down the oil tank.

My disassembly photos show that the jumbo oil line that goes from the crankcase to the thermostat goes up and over the wheelarch, fastened in a chassis retainer at the top of the arc. That's fine...however when I took it all apart, the line ran like this --->



But logic says that the shaping of the inside of the tank, and the recess in the inner arch itself, is there to place the hose "behind" the rubber mounting, like this --->



...but it does make for a tighter fit with getting the tank into position on the rubber mount slots.

Anyone know the answer pls?

(The tank's not in place at the moment, as I'm fitting the lower rubber hoses onto the thermostat, hence why the oil filler neck tube isn't aligned with the tank input.)

[MyTurbo3.6]

Behind as in the last picture.