Tuscon driver mows down cyclists

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by jyl

He didn't think anyone could identify or catch him. That's not uncommon - people in cars often think they are anonymous and untouchable - that is why there is such a thing as a drive-by _______ [insert act].

Fruiting?

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

if a given set of road users present an unusual hazard for all others, and are only on the road for their own ammusement, it seems quite reasonable to demand they stay off of the roads.

(How many "m's" in amusement?)

If a cyclist or a group of cyclists constitutes an unusual hazard for you, then you must be one of the worst drivers in Washington State, and that is really saying something, because I dread driving North on I5.
If these selfsame cyclists were indeed a hazard for "all others" then you would think that by now, something would have been done, and yet, I look around and I still see cyclists. I guess the people in charge haven't gotten your list of the rules of the road yet.

Listen, Jeff, I hate to break it to you, but the world is changing. Young people are not learning to drive, they aren't buying or insuring cars and they aren't going to pay 4 bucks for gas. They commute, shop, move and recreate on bicycles. You can get used to it and accept the fact that the roaduse paradigm is changing, and there's nothing you can do about it, or you can stew in your own hatred of things that you don't like. Your choice.

[Rich76_911s]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

You still have not addressed my original point, even after I went through all the trouble to clarify it for you. It's really quite simple - if a given set of road users present an unusual hazard for all others, and are only on the road for their own ammusement, it seems quite reasonable to demand they stay off of the roads. If they are materially contributing to the benefit of all, then we should make allowances for their use of the road. It's really not that hard of a concept.

Can we please also apply this to motorcycle riders? Particularly those on Harleys with no muffler, and punks who think racing on the highway is training for the Isles of Man.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

we make allowances for vehicles that present an extra hazard due to their extreme disparity in speed with other road users - just not if their sole purpose for being out there is their own amusement.

we shouldn't diss hugh's RV in this thread

also, many cyclists are ging to work

the basic flaw in your post Jeff is that cyclists have every right to use the public roads - it is right there in the statutes; restrictions include freeways and in Oregon, the req. to ride as close to the edge as "practicable"

and 40 together is too many as posted above

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

I've been told a LOT of things by cops.....when I ask them politely for the code section or if they had the book handy, the section either doesn't apply or is like NCIS rules....a fig newton of Jethro's imagination.....

Bikes do NOT have to stay to the right of the white line. They are a vehicle with the same rights as any other slow moving vehicle.

maybe, maybe not - it depends on what the law is in Wisc. and if that post after yours is the only statute on it then you'd have to look at the reg.s and the court interpretations...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Of course I said a good deal more than that, and now you have chosen only one sentance (presented out of context) in your efforts to support your original conclusion. Are you taking lessons from JYL or something?

You still have not addressed my original point, even after I went through all the trouble to clarify it for you. It's really quite simple - if a given set of road users present an unusual hazard for all others, and are only on the road for their own ammusement, it seems quite reasonable to demand they stay off of the roads. If they are materially contributing to the benefit of all, then we should make allowances for their use of the road. It's really not that hard of a concept.

this reminds me of sports car groups somehow... even if I agree (partly) with you

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Good point, if he was trying to kill or seriously hurt someone, he would have done much more damage.

this goes to his mental state, and that will determine what level of crime he gets charged with or convicted on

it sounds like it is beyond negligence, likely beyond reckless

most places the next levels are extreme recklessness; knowledge and purpose

the guy better not be wearing his baggy pants in prison I guess

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

but the world is changing. Young people are not learning to drive, they aren't buying or insuring cars and they aren't going to pay 4 bucks for gas. They commute, shop, move and recreate on bicycles.

This *may* be kinda true in Portlandia, but is not even close to reality across the nation.

While I agree kids can't afford casual motoring as we could, they are not buying and using bikes as utility transportation in anything close to numbers that matter.

[Paul_Heery]

This thread prompted me to look up the laws governing cyclists here in CT. There are a few that I did not include covering things like lights and helmets. But, one thing that I see ignored here all of the time in the nicer weather is the limitations on not riding more than 2 abreast and not impeding the flow of traffic.

Connecticut Bicycle Laws:

Bicyclist’s Status – Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles. Bicyclists riding
on a highway are granted all of the rights and are subject to all of the duties
applicable to the driver of a vehicle, with certain exceptions. (14-286a)

Lane positioning – When riding on roadways, bicyclists are to ride as near to the
right side of the roadway as practicable, except:
1. When making a left turn; or
2. When passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, or
3. When passing pedestrians, parked vehicles, animals, or obstructions on the
right side of the highway, or
4. When the right side of the highway is closed for construction (14-286b)

Riding 2 abreast – Riding 2 abreast is permitted as long as doing so does not
impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. Riding more than 2 abreast
is prohibited except on paths or roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.
(14-286b)

[jyl]

Yeah, fruiting, shooting, swearing, etc.

In Portland there are two guys who are driving up by cyclists and shooting them with paintball guns (though they seem to be bad shots). They'll get caught sooner or later. Last year there was a SUV who swerved to give me a close miss while honking and yelling. Etc. All example of drivers who think they are "anonymous".

Presumably when Jeff commits his bear spray assault on a cycling group this summer, he will also rely on anonymity and his accelerator pedal.

Quote de jyl

He didn't think anyone could identify or catch him. That's not uncommon - people in cars often think they are anonymous and untouchable - that is why there is such a thing as a drive-by _______ [insert act].

Fruiting?

[Jeff Higgins]

Actually, I'm starting to rethink the whole bear spray plan. I'm worried someone might crash and scratch up my car. That would make me sad.

Far better would be to take advantage of our hilly terrain and blind corners. I'm thinking just patiently wait for the ass hats to let me by, wave all friendly-like, and just dart ahead a mile or two to the next steep grade with a corner at the bottom. I could "recycle" last year's Swepco by dousing down the shoulder and the first foot or two into the road. Pulling up a couple hundred yards to watch the action, they would never know who it was.

On second thought, maybe I better forget about this. Swepco is too ubiquitous to the 911. I should use Valvoline, even if I have to spend a few bucks on new stuff. Might be worth it. Hmmm... bear with me, I'm still working out the details...

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Actually, I'm starting to rethink the whole bear spray plan. I'm worried someone might crash and scratch up my car. That would make me sad.

Far better would be to take advantage of our hilly terrain and blind corners. I'm thinking just patiently wait for the ass hats to let me by, wave all friendly-like, and just dart ahead a mile or two to the next steep grade with a corner at the bottom. I could "recycle" last year's Swepco by dousing down the shoulder and the first foot or two into the road. Pulling up a couple hundred yards to watch the action, they would never know who it was.

On second thought, maybe I better forget about this. Swepco is too ubiquitous to the 911. I should use Valvoline, even if I have to spend a few bucks on new stuff. Might be worth it. Hmmm... bear with me, I'm still working out the details...

I told you, you'd never dare do it.

Anyway, now you're going to oil the road and take down the next motorcyclist or car. I'll wait to hear about that arrest.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by jyl

I told you, you'd never dare do it.

Wow, John, I can't believe your day has finally arrived - the day - wait for it - the day you are actually right on the Internet! What a red letter day for you. You've worked so long and hard for this. Your mom must be so proud.

Originally Posted by jyl

Anyway, now you're going to oil the road and take down the next motorcyclist or car. I'll wait to hear about that arrest.

Naw, I'll be more careful than that. I ride a motorcycle and drive a car. You'll note I said "shoulder and the first foot or two into the road". You know, the part of the road exclusively reserved for cyclists, the part of the road on which they have the right to ride.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Jeff, the cops will give you a pass for all of the dead cyclists (nobody likes them anyway), but the EPA will be on your ass for illegal disposal of motor oil. You should probably come up with another plan, like jamming things into wheel spokes.

[look 171]

40 together is usually faster then a city bus. Can we look at them as a city bus and wait for a clearing to pass? This is going no where, there are good drivers and good cyclist who actually follow the law. We are just stereotyping here. I don't do much group rides these days and my racing days are over some time ago. When I did, we were doing about 30+mph on the flats. People get upset because they want to go faster then that but can't get around them. There is no wrong or right here. I have been on both sides. I know what it is like having to ride on the side of the road with broken glass that can cut a tire. some of those tires cost more then a regular car tire. Hell, you wouldn't drive your 911 on it. Tell you this, I rather drive along side or behind a group of experience riders then the few that don't know what the heck they are doing on a bike. I can predict exactly what they will do in a certain situation because there are group rules that are unknown or never apply to drivers. For example, 40 riders going around a pot hole or a park car onto another lane (#1 lane, still going the same direction)to avoid breakage of a wheel that can cause major accident. in a driver's eye, they are taking up the all the lanes. would you go around a rock on the road in your 911?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

Jeff, the cops will give you a pass for all of the dead cyclists (nobody likes them anyway), but the EPA will be on your ass for illegal disposal of motor oil. You should probably come up with another plan, like jamming things into wheel spokes.

I'm starting to think "anvil". We have some fairly high cliffs around here, under which some good cycling roads pass. That, and fairly tall trees, with branches overhanging those roads. I'm told Acme has some quality products along these lines, although both of my boys warned me when they were little and we were in the hardware store - "dad, don't buy anything from Acme, it never works"...

[look 171]

How bout' some cables across the road to take their heads off just like they did in WW2. Oil, bear spray and such are all child's play. They will just get up and do it again in two weeks. Siht Jeff, do it right and get rid of the problem all together.

[flipper35]

I have friends that still ride and I honk and wave as I go by, but it is the "experienced" riders with the numbered jerseys that ride 4 abreast that are the problem. I am sorry if that offends you. Wait, no I am not. What they are doing is both inconsiderate and illegal yet they go all high and mighty when you call them on it.

Jeff, make sure you put some "bait" in the middle of the road. It is easier when they are stopped. It almost works for Wile E.

[look 171]

Flipper,

It was not that way until the big bike explosion. the new breed makes me sick so of the things they do and they way they think. Yes, we have blown some stops in the residential areas usually 7 early in the morning when no one is around (still it does not make it right), but never on the big blvd.

[vash]

"angry cyclist mows down pedestrians"

what is it with those damn slow ass pedestrians walking 3 wide on the local trails?