Ultimate Backdating Thread

[MMARSH]

Originally posted by JTO
expathk and the rest,

This idea has been rattling around in my head too; backdating a 964 to the long nose look. It seems kinda like a good idea in that you have the coil overs, the good AC, good oil cooling, bigger brakes, etc. and the 3.6 already in the car, all engineered. It seems like with the right choice of parts one could end up with a better performing machine than say taking a '72 T and adding a 3.6. Do you see what I'm getting at? It may be more economical and achieve a better result if one was to start with a 964 and backdate the body. Underneath is better/newer technology with the same basic body as a mid-year car or Carrera.

My thoughts,
Troy

One problem with that is that with all the better/newer technology comes alot of weight. When done it would perform well, but it wouldn't feel nearly as nimble and light as a early or SC/Carrera would.

[JTO]

Hi Jack,
No offense intended! And Michael, you are right. I guess I was thinking that with lightweight backdate body parts, maybe a couple hundred pounds could be shed? Just random thoughts. I would like to use Porsche engineering and use their solutions when possible. In my mind, it might end up being a cool car with fewer drawbacks for the road use it would see in my hands. OK, maybe some track time but not a semi-dedicated track car.

Please take no offense Jack. I think the two cars you have created are some of the neatest cars I've ever seen.

Troy

[MotoSook]

Michael beat me to it! There are some very nice comfort upgrades (never mind the engine) in the 964 relative to my poor mid-year, but in the end I might have a car that is close to 2300lbs with a slightly modified early SC engine. Using a good combination of t-bars, shocks, sway bars and bushings, I can't see how the t-bar suspension can lag that much behind the coils over suspension of the 964 to dismiss the old design. The power to weight ratio of my car can't be that bad. And when I'm ready for the next power development project, I'll build a 240+ HP engine that should make my P/W ratio closer to a 964 based backdate.

I don't want to change the direction of the thread, and I think I would like a 964 based long hood. However, I think for a car that's tracked often, an SC or Mid-year based backdate is likely to be more fun. Striping the things that make the 964 comfortable and making it as Spartan as my car is now, and will be, won't make sense IMO.

Now if money is no object...we can talk about how to make a 964 backdate more fun than a light SC or Mid-year backdate.

No offense to the 964 guys (and the SC guys), but if you're gonna go Bastard..you gotta start with a Mid-year...WUF! WUF!

[JTO]

Souk,
Its your thread so I'll agree with you. But a backdated 964 is very bastard!

Troy

[KTL]

Originally posted by Souk
Chris, can you scan the rest and e-mail it (souk at comcase dot net)? Hi-res is good. Or post it. Maybe Mrs. Claus will give me a 911 World subscription.

Later posted by Souk...........
I haven't seen the e-mail pop in yet, but htank you!

Might not have seen the email yet because of the above typo in your mail address?

[MotoSook]

Originally posted by JTO
Souk,
Its your thread so I'll agree with you. But a backdated 964 is very bastard!

Troy

Yes Troy...I agree It was just a play on the Gruppe B thing.

As I won't let the purist in me stand in the way of our fun with 911's ... everyone ..BACKDATE!

Yes Kevin..Good Catch. I hate it when he's right! The e-mail address is: souk@comcast.net

Thanks Kevin...now where did I leave the greasy gloves...your car has been in the garage too long

[MotoSook]

Famous and one of the earlier backdates, curtisaa's car:

[nostatic]

Curt's car started as an '88. And it looks even better in person.

[MotoSook]

Here is Jim's thread on his backdate...

2 days, 2 great friends and doritos = back date, the front half

Check out Jim's website for pictures. OR maybe Jim can update his thread. Good stuff!

[MotoSook]

Here is another backdate thread worth looking at.

(Curtisaa)

[MotoSook]

And for Paul...here's your heater backdate information. Ron's stuff is good, but I thought I'd add this thread too.

backdating hot air duct

And another:

backdating heating questions

[MotoSook]

And Jim's other thread (the back half) ...very good stuff. Thanks Jim and Curt.

back date, the back half

[Jack Olsen]

Originally posted by JTO
Please take no offense Jack. I think the two cars you have created are some of the neatest cars I've ever seen.

None taken. Like I said, I think there's a lot to be said for stripping out a 964 and putting a long (fiberglass) hood on it. I'd maybe chuck the power steering, but the ABS is a huge plus.

RS Americas are pretty potent track cars, even in stock trim. With no AC, manual windows a fiberglass seat, no sound deadening, and uprated springs and shocks, I think you could get the 'cushy luxury car' to handle pretty nicely.

[74911s]

i fixed the pics in the old thread about the front of my car.

[MotoSook]

.....



Thanks Jim!

[Glasgow 911SC]

Souk,
The file should be on it's way now...hopefully.

A 964 backdate is appealing to me for a few reasons. I think if I was to replace my SC, a G50 car would be my target. For financial reasons I can only have 1 car. 964s over here are, on the whole, cheaper than similar aged, similar condition 3.2s. Rust can be a big issue even on these later cars so the fender liners on the 964 help. Also with the weather, a C4 would be handy. I think an early looking car with 4 wheel drive would be very interesting.

Curtisaa's G50 car is a bit of inspiration for me.

Originally posted by JackOlsen
None taken. Like I said, I think there's a lot to be said for stripping out a 964 and putting a long (fiberglass) hood on it. I'd maybe chuck the power steering, but the ABS is a huge plus.

Is chucking the power steering (easily) possible? This is the thing that bothers me most about 964s (apart from more expensive servicing costs).

Also, did anyone ever get Fuchs custom made for a 964?

[KTL]

Dumping the power steering is possible. The 964 Cup cars and the RS America have non-power steering. Have no idea what's entailed in changing to no power steering though..........

[MotoSook]

So this was asked in the update thread.

Originally posted by brawlins
Speaking of backdated cars - I wonder how many people would be interested in buying one?

I know I would not. I wouldn't know what parts to buy, plus I'd wonder if putting Part A from 1991 with Part B from 1982 would eventually cause some kind of problem.

I wonder what perceptions are of resale value on hybrid cars?

I think if done right, a backdated car should demand more money than a stock SC or Carrera.

I'm documenting the crap out of my backdate so all future questions will have an answer.

[MotoSook]

As the 911 line has so many parts that are interchangeable, I don't think backdating or forward dating should be a negative thing.

We upgrade our cars all the time! If it is not for a popular asthetic motive, it's usually a performance motive.

A knowing buyer will know what to look for, and if a stock car is what the buyer wants he may be looking for a long time. In the end, that buyer will likely perform some of the mods that most of us have done or would like to do.

[brawlins]

As the 911 line has so many parts that are interchangeable, I don't think backdating or forward dating should be a negative thing.

That would certainly make me feel better if I were considering buying a backdated car.

I've been wondering if there are certain things you can do that are considered as NOT messing with the "purity" of a particular model - Like putting on a custom exhaust system versus changing out engine components ??

- Bill