Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[Gene Wilkes]

You could order and ship 2 cases of Brad Penn for a LOT lets!

[Wavey]

"They ship UPS, major fees and brokerage charges to Canada."

Correct, I missed that he's in Canada.

"You could order and ship 2 cases of Brad Penn for a LOT lets!"

Correct, but you don't get the HP gains, 8-18 HP, per C. Navarro. Cost difference = extremely cheap HP, see previous posts.

This thread is getting to be redundant.

[drauz]

good advice & discussion bears repeating.

[rnln]

Originally Posted by htron435

By the way, Brad Penn is a synthetic blend, not just dyno oil.

I have heard Synthetic enhance leak on old engine, and experienced it on my E36 BMW with M1 synthetic. Switched back to Castrol and Val and no more leak. Will Synthetic Blend enhance the same problem? Or 50% chance?
Thanks.

[cnavarro]

The Brad Penn is only 10% synthetic group III (hydrocracked dino oil), so no, no leaks.

It all depends on the kind of syn blend. Motul synthetic blend, like what I use in my VWs is a group III, IV, and V blend, so it can cause leaks, but likely not.

Group IV makes seals well and V makes them shrink, or at least that's how it was explained to me. In the right proportions, the syn shouldn't leak. Emphasis on shouldn't, but in my experience, I have had a bone dry engine leak like a sieve when switched to a full syn.

[rnln]

Reading this thread, although I didn’t understand much but I could collect a list of brands (Brad-Penn 20w50, Swepco 306, Royal Purple, BP, RP, M1 V-Twin (Not M1 Synt), Amsoil, Quaker Sate) then went to Walmart, pepboys, Sears, and a local autopart near my house to see what is available out there for crap when needed. Out of all 8 choices, I found 2 are available, Quaker Sate and Royal Purple, at pepboys. Forgive me that I am on the cheap side and like to change oil every 3k miles. I don't think Royal Purple is reasonable for normal driving since it cost almost $8/quart, unless there is no other choice. I have been using Castrol GTX and Valvoline for proximately $10 to $12 per 5 quarts. So the only choice left is the Quaker State, locally. I have seen this brand on the shell all the time but never heard a good thing about it. Several times I asked and response was "it's not good" or "you get what you paid for". Now, I am confused.
While at Walmart, more than 1 time I heard guys told me that SuperTech is actually Valvoline so it should be very good oil. I think I brought it up to this board before but seem like none of us are trying/testing it so I am bringing it up again. Hopefully someone knows about it this time.

[cnavarro]

Remove Quaker State from your list, I wouldn't use it, no matter how good their bottle looks or what their advertising says :-) If someone said it's ok, it's a typo. No matter how you cut the mustard, you're not going to find anything cheaper than Brad Penn, even with shipping included. If you can find it locally, all the more reason to use the Brad Penn. That's why I like the Brad Penn, it's cheaper than the full syn options, gives the needed protection, and because it's not as expensive, you shouldn't feel so bad doing the fall and spring oil changes like you should, at least on cars that aren't daily drivers.

[Porsche_(razy]

Thanks -I am so glad I read this forum
My Cams are from Webcams - works great and the people there helped me set it up right.
I ordered a case of Swepco 306 and a gallon of Swepco 201 transmission oil. I hope it isn’t too late. I don't feel like building another +/-$10,000 motor again. $10,000 was for the parts and machining. I wish I was going to Rennsport. I've had my fun for the Month with the PCA in Asheville this weekend –Fall Tour.
Enjoy

[Porsche_(razy]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

VR-1 was recently reformulated and I just recently had a well known 356 race engine builder loose his own engine to the new VR-1. He has now swarn off all Valvoline products!

I'm sure you had a cam from Webcams - your problem had nothing to do with the oil being synthetic but that it was reformulated and had lower Zn and P. All that is buying you more time with the VR-1 is that it does have a very high flash point and HTHS viscosity, albeit very low Zn and P.

Thanks -I am so glad I read this forum
My Cams are from Webcams - works great and the people there helped me set it up right.
I ordered a case of Swepco 306 and a gallon of Swepco 201 transmission oil. I hope it isn’t too late. I don't feel like building another +/-$10,000 motor again. $10,000 was for the parts and machining. I wish I was going to Rennsport. I've had my fun for the Month with the PCA in Asheville this weekend –Fall Tour.
Enjoy

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by rnln

Reading this thread, although I didn’t understand much .. snip ... Forgive me that I am on the cheap side and like to change oil every 3k miles.

I am ceap too but with an engine rebuild somewhere north of $10k, I do not think oil is the place to economize.

Lets look at the costs. I have 133,000 miles on my car. I would think with good oil and care, I can go 200,000 miles before I will need to rebuild. With bad oil, maybe to 150,000.

Cost of good oil changes: Assume $8/qt and change 10 qts every 3,000 miles. This means I will do about 22 oil changes and it will cost me $1,786.67.

Cost of cheap oil changes: Assume $2/qt etc. For 22 changes it will cost me $447. This saves me $1,340 but chances are I will need to rebuild prematurely so the cost to 200,000 mile is really to spend over $11,340 to get to 200,000 miles plus I would have more damage to repair due to excessive wear (i.e. cams, intermediate shafts, etc).

I think I save money by using good oil.

[rnln]

Thanks guys,

HarryD,
Thanks for bringing this up and the analyzing. You are correct. That's why I went out and search right after readig this thread. I didn't mean to go with cheap oil and have a chance to rebuilding the engine early but I don't know what is available locally while can be reasonable. So seem like Charles said, the only choice is ording online and cross the Quaker State off the list.

One additional question regarding this area. Normally, I change oil every 2k miles or less on my 88 911, and 4k+ on newer Japanese cars. Now, with Brad Penn, should I keep it the same on my 911 or it is safe to extend it a little longer?

BTW, I have a question regarding tranny oil. I have been using M1 Synthetic for my tranny. Now, do we have the same issue with tranny or only engine? If same, what we better use for tranny?

Thanks.

[rnln]

Originally Posted by dmwallace

Ron,

I put Brad Penn 20w-50 in my '89 not long before its sale. It might be my imagination but I thought the car revved more easily and also idled quieter than before the oil change. If that is what you decide to go with you can go on their web site, click contact and ask them who is the closest distributor. I would think in NJ they would have at least one distributor.

Regards,
David

I am not a pro so my question might not make any sense but if I am wrong, someone please educate me. To my basic understanding, rev easier = lighter weight oil. I can simply use lighter weight of any oil for reving easier and accelerating quicker. The thing we want is to protect the engine better. Am I correct?

[Gunter]

Where does 15W40 Diesel fit in on aircooled engines?
I understand that Diesel oil has additives for temp and high pressure.
Good? Bad?

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by Gunter

Where does 15W40 Diesel fit in on aircooled engines?
I understand that Diesel oil has additives for temp and high pressure.
Good? Bad?

Gunter:

Whe diesel oils were still API-CI-4, they contained sufficient ZDDP to protect these engines, but with the advent of API-CJ-4, ZDDP content has really dropped and diesel oils are not the panacea that they once were.

Further, these oils contain few surfectants to prevent foaming (most diesels never see 3000 RPM) and if one is predisposed to run the engine beyond 6K RPM, I would not choose one of these oils. Foaming raises oil temps and does little to help the pump do its job,...

[cnavarro]

Just to clarify, the CJ-4 is the new, lower ZDDP specification, not CI-4. The Swepco 306 is a CI-4 15w40 diesel oil that is a phenomenal product in it's own right.

[esample]

[QUOTE=HarryD;3559569]I am ceap too but with an engine rebuild somewhere north of $10k, I do not think oil is the place to economize.

Cost of good oil changes: Assume $8/qt and change 10 qts every 3,000 miles. This means I will do about 22 oil changes and it will cost me $1,786.67.

QUOTE]

I agree completely, but was surprised to find BP is nowhere near that pricey. Just picked up two cases of Brad Penn at Neumann Oil in Tampa for $80.
Not what I'd call expensive.

-esample

[smessing]

I live in NJ, where in the not to distant future, we will be seeing temps in the 20's and 30's. Based on the info in this thread, I was going to pick up some Brad Penn 20W-50, but I am concerned using it when it hits the low temps. I just found that I can get Swepco 15w-40 for $113 for a case of 24qts, which seems like a pretty good deal to me. I wanted to add that my 911sc is not a daily driver and is garaged, so I will only be taking it out maybe once a week just to keep everything in shape.


Any opinions on the Brad Penn vs Swepco for NJ Fall / Winter use?

Thanks

[tchanson]

I would guess that you may be able to save some money on the Mobil 1 V-Twin by calling your nearest Exxon Mobil distributor directly, especially if buying a couple of 6 quart cases needed for a 911. Worth a call, anyway, if there is a distributor nearby.



Tim

[movin]

OK, got the Brad Penn 20W-50. Now I got to add more zinc and phosphorous?
How much? Will one bottle of EOS be enough for the 12 quarts?
This is nuts, mail order oil, then add more ingredients because it's still not up to snuff! Big question, if Brad Penn is so good why do I have to add more zinc and phosporous? Is there some product out there that works right out of the bottle as good as Brad Penn with additives?

[movin]

OK, got the Brad Penn 20W-50. Now I got to add more zinc and phosphorous?
How much? Will one bottle of EOS be enough for the 12 quarts?
This is nuts, mail order oil, then add more ingredients because it's still not up to snuff! Big question, if Brad Penn is so good why do I have to add more zinc and phosphorus? Is there some product out there that works right out of the bottle as good as Brad Penn with additives?