Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[Flieger]

I think it is also formulated to work at the cooler temperatures and lower pressures of altitude.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I changed my oil today. Note the yellow sticker that was randomly stuck on the bottle. Have to wonder, maybe someone is listening to enthusiasts.

Oil was green BTW, $4.29 per quart.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by JFairman

There's a new green oil.
It's biodegradable, made from animal fats here in the USA, and rinses off your hands with water.

Gunnar Racing is using it in their new LMPC Oreca in the ALMS.
The prototype race car has a 430HP Corvette motor and they finished second in class at the 12hrs of Sebring and won the LMPC class yesterday at Long Beach.

They are saying it is better than synthetic and you can pour it out on your lawn if you want.

Maybe this stuff is the future...

Green Earth Technologies

Green Earth Technologies - G-OILŪ - G1 Racing Oil

Historic Performance By G-Oil's Green Earth Team Gunnar :: PaddockTalk :: F1, Formula 1, NASCAR, IndyCar, MotoGP, ALMS, And More!

News > Sebring: Green Earth Team Gunnar comments on IMSA decision - Motorsport.com

Green Earth Technologies

Well, it may be intersting but I notice there are no 15W-40, 20W-50 or other "heavy weight" oils offered.

Thanks but no thanks...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

I changed my oil today. Note the yellow sticker that was randomly stuck on the bottle. Have to wonder, maybe someone is listening to enthusiasts.

Oil was green BTW, $4.29 per quart.

- it is the "invisible hand" at work

$4.30/Qt. is a pretty good price

[donstevens]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Today I received a PM for a guy who was overwhelmed by the oil threads.

He asked a simple question, what oil for my turbo? I am not sure BP or SWEPCO is the best due tothe heat the oil sees in my Turbo. I want to use Mobil 1 for it's heat resistance but the ZDDP Issues has me worried. What should I do?

Well, I certainly do not know but I will bet that someone here does. Can we help him out?

Harry,

He simply wants a high ZDDP Synthetic. That way he gets the better cold flow and thermal stability of a group IV or group V synthetic with high zinc for wear.
Suggested products:

Amsoil 20W50
Amsoil 20W50 Motorcycle
Redline 15W50
Mobil-1 motorcycle 15W50

Don

[kidrock]

Originally Posted by RWebb

- it is the "invisible hand" at work

$4.30/Qt. is a pretty good price

$3.99 / qt. at my local O'Reilly's.

[9dreizig]

I bought some oil yesterday, paid around 4.40 a quart for the Valvoline too. It also had the sticker on it.
My understanding is that any 20/50 is exempt from the regulations regarding limiting zinc.

[dmwallace]

Looking at the Valvoline site there is also a ValvolineŪ Racing Synthetic (VR1) Motor Oil that is stated to be "the high zinc SL formula is designed for the track, but is great for high performance passenger vehicles too, including flat tappet applications."

There isn't a product data sheet listed for this oil on the site, however.

[GaryR]

Valvoline Racing VV211 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil

[dmwallace]

I was refering to this one on the Valvoline site (comes in 20w-50):

Valvoline.com > Products > Motor Oil > Racing Motor Oil > ValvolineŪ Racing Synthetic (VR1) Motor Oil

[333pg333]

I'm not sure if I'm imagining this but I look around various Porsche and Oil forums and there just seems to be some sort of blind allegiance to anything Mobil? I often direct them to this actual thread but usually don't get much of a reply. Especially the foreign sites. Perhaps there's an anti US sentiment, I don't know. I'm from Australia by the way. I've been checking out the BITOG site and searched under Porsche 944 turbos. Apart from the usual crap from people that don't actually own a flat tappet motorcar there is also some drivel by someone by the name of Doug Hillary who espouses using Delvac or other unsuitable oils.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1118333

On a UK site they won't even respond as they flog a 'Full synthetic' 0w/30 for just about any car.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=237642&mid=0&nmt=Oil%20advice%20and%20recommendations%20(Opie%2 0Oils)

Lots of misleading info out there. Has anyone done an independent test on the 'new' M products that claim to have sufficient levels of ZDDP?

[CruiseControl]

Fresh Mobile 1 - 5W50 analysis - August 2007 - Australian Product



Paul

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by 333pg333

I'm not sure if I'm imagining this but I look around various Porsche and Oil forums and there just seems to be some sort of blind allegiance to anything Mobil? I often direct them to this actual thread but usually don't get much of a reply. Especially the foreign sites. Perhaps there's an anti US sentiment, I don't know. I'm from Australia by the way. I've been checking out the BITOG site and searched under Porsche 944 turbos. Apart from the usual crap from people that don't actually own a flat tappet motorcar there is also some drivel by someone by the name of Doug Hillary who espouses using Delvac or other unsuitable oils.

Porsche 911 (air cooled) oil suggestions? - Bob Is The Oil Guy

On a UK site they won't even respond as they flog a 'Full synthetic' 0w/30 for just about any car.
Oil advice and recommendations (Opie Oils))

Lots of misleading info out there. Has anyone done an independent test on the 'new' M products that claim to have sufficient levels of ZDDP?

Hi Patrick,

I've made the same observations and I think a large part of that is due to some excellent marketing by Mobil toward the OEM's such as Porsche A.G to get factory approval. Shell just did the same thing with Ferrari about a Pennzoil product. There is a lot of money at stake.

To address your question, I've not tested the SM-rated Mobil 1 15w-50, however I can tell you that these engines really need an oil that contains a minimum of 1200ppm of ZDDP to protect the cams and rockers (not to mention some other parts). Looking at that VOA report of Mobil 1's 5w-50, the ZDDP content is not quite what we want to see, despite their efforts to fortify this product with other friction-modifiers such as Boron & Moly.

Frankly, not that many people here have inspected the insides of a lot of engines to see the short & long-term effects of using the SM-rated oils in these engines so one needs to be prudent about what you read as well as one's choice of oils.

[tchanson]

A more recent Mobil 1 15w50 VOA that I had performed a few weeks ago:










Tim

[dave 911]

For my stock 76 2.7 -- is the preferred weight that I should be running 20W-50? I've been using Castrol 20W-50 for the last 25 years, but after reading this thread it sounds like I should switch, at least to the hi-mileage variant.

I did a quick cruise of the local auto parts stores and none of them carried anything on the list from post #1, at least in 20W-50.

So a few questions (for my specific engine, ~120K miles)....

Royal Purple, is 20W-50 the proper weight I should run?

I found the Mobil 1 V-twin 20W-50, but I'm leery of changing to a synthetic after all these years/miles - should I stick w/ non-synthetic since that's all the engine has ever had?

It looks like the Valvoline VR1 20W-50 is a good choice - is it ok for my specific engine?

[HarryD]

Hi Dave,

Welcome to our board. This is one the best 911 BBS's on the planet.

As you may well imagine, oil is like religion here, everyone has an opinion and many conflict.

For our cars, you should run 20W-50 or 15W-40 (says so in the owners manual).

Back in the day, switching to Synthetic oil caused appaerent leaks. Now adays, it is my understanding that there is an additive in the synthetic oil to stop this problem.

You want a product that has a high level (1200-1400 ppm) of antiwear additive (zinc/phosphrus aka ZDDP) since we have flat tappets actuating our valves via the cam shaft. A long time ago SAE found out that this is an area subject to high pressure wear and zinc/phosphrus is the cure.

As far as which one, confusing as it may be, it is utlimately up to you.

I go with the observations by engine builders (who see more disassembled engines in a year than I will see in a lifetime) like Steve Weiner, Charles Navarro, Peter Zimmerman, and others. For this reason, I tend to value their opinions.

They, as a group have iondicated that preferred vendors are Brand Penn, SWEPCO, Kendall and Valvoline (VR-1 only). There are others as well (check the Product Data Sheets on their web site). The HDEO ("diesel") oils are supposed to be very good as well (Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac, Exxon Delo).

As you have found out, many of these vendors are not easy to find as they aree not on the shelves of your local Parts Store. When you consider the cost of a rebuild due to a failure (north of $10,000), the effort is worth it.

Does this help?

[dave 911]

Harry - yes, helpful. Reading through all the info regarding oil is fairly overwhelming to say the least!

I found a case of the Valvoline VR1 20W-50 locally, I'm off to get it now.

And yes, this forum is outstanding. I learn something new about my car every day.

Thanks again

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by dave 911

Harry - yes, helpful. Reading through all the info regarding oil is fairly overwhelming to say the least!

I found a case of the Valvoline VR1 20W-50 locally, I'm off to get it now.

And yes, this forum is outstanding. I learn something new about my car every day.

Thanks again

Glad too help.

You should consider adding your location to your profile. It may help us help you.

[gsmith660]

Yes I have an oil change coming soon and I suspect I will be giving the full synthetic valvoine racing oil a go to minimize coking in the turbo.

[tchanson]

Don't overlook these other full synthetic oils, particularly beneficial to turbos, that have been recommended both on this board in general and this thread in particular for years now:

Mobil 1 VTwin 20W50 and Motul 300V 15W50.


If you run a cat, the current formulation Mobil 1 15W50 appears to have adequate ZDDP based on the VOA above. Otherwise, the new Mobil 1 Racing 0W50 that is to be released this month could be a strong alternative to dino or partial synthetic boutique oils as well.






Tim