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is it sweet? if so, then prob. esters

Old 07-20-2008, 09:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #921 (permalink)
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Charles,

Would it be a good idea to use this oil, sold on the MOSS Motors site? It's going in a 90K mile '84 3.2 , used very infrequently...

http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/pdf/220-810_220-815_INST.pdf

Regards,

jp
Old 07-23-2008, 04:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #922 (permalink)
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I can't comment on that oil because we've never run it or had a chance to field test it like some of the other oils I've recommended.

From their literature, it looks like it's formulated like a CH-4 or earlier API spec diesel oil and it says it has extreme pressure friction modifiers, i.e. moly. It's also a bit more money than the Brad Penn. That's about all I can say about it. I'd like to know what real testing has been done on the product - they also sell a popular zddp product I don't care for much either, so I don't know if that says anything about this particular oil either.
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Old 07-23-2008, 05:22 PM
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Thanks Charles.

It's been a while (for me) since following the Pelican forum, so I'm not quite up to date on this "new" oil formulation discussion.
Last time I changed the oil on the 3.2, I remember using M1 0W-30 during winter months (NY) and 10W-40 or 20W-50 "High Mileage" oil formulations; I don't believe Brad Penn was available at the time.
If I understand from this thread; BP 20W-50 is a good summer choice for the 3.2, and 10W-30 for winter.
With the new M1 fomulation, can I still use 0W-30 as a winter storage oil??

Regards,
JP
Old 07-23-2008, 08:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #924 (permalink)
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JP,

Using something like M1 MX4T (4T Racing) 10w40, if you prefer the Mobil 1 brand, would be fine for year-round use, unless you take the car to the track and see ambient air temps over 90F. I would not use the M1 0w30 at all. A 10w40 is good for starts to well below 0F.

Last winter I ran a 50/50 blend of Brad Penn 0w30 and 20w50 at Brad Penn's suggestion to yield a 10w40 and it was great here in IL even on the coldest mornings - I just pulled out a sample to analyze and I'm going to my summer fill now. Since putting in the 50/50 blend, Brad Penn came out with a 10w40 under their motorcycle line of oils, but it's quite a bit more synthetic than their previous racing oils. Technically, you could run the 10w30 (or 0w30) Brad Penn as you suggested, as long as ambient air temps stay below, say 60F (i'd even be more cautious and go even lower). See the below chart for viscosities vs. temps and note that it calls for an API SE or SF rated oil - you won't find many SE rated anymore, but many of the motorcycle oil and racing oils carry an SF, SG, SH, or SJ rating, which is much closer to what Porsche had intended in our engines.

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Last edited by cnavarro; 07-24-2008 at 03:55 AM..
Old 07-24-2008, 03:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #925 (permalink)
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Thumbs up New Brad Penn

My case of Brad Penn arrived right on schedule today from Charles Navarro. I am very pleased to know how well it lubricates the valvetrain and how it lessens wear and holds up over time and temperature. I used to use Castrol GTX until I read how engines wear quicker with it compared to Brad Penn.

The BP is very high quality and reasonably priced- about $6.60 a quart shipped. I should have changed long ago. My Castrol is dark and smells like fuel and is thin. (MFI motor). I will be changing very soon along with a vavle adjustment and will try to flush the front oil cooler.

This is my first synthetic oil blend. It does smell slighly sweet- esters, you say? Interesting. I am diggin' the Green Oil.

Thank You Charles Navarro for the wealth of knowledge you expound.
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Old 07-25-2008, 08:23 PM
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The more I read, the more I learn, the more I Worry.

I just bought a 04 JEtta Turbo 1.8L....Dealership has a life time engine Guarantee, if I use Quaker State. QS doesnt make a CJ oil required by VW. Needs 5w40 or 5w30.

What can i add to my oil to get me to my next oil change?
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #927 (permalink)
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I wouldn't trust that dealer... doesn't make sense if the QS oil doesn't meet the VW spec. for your car... I wouldn't trust them anyway... in let's say 15 years if your engine breaks they will get out of the deal somehow. My brother in law has one of these VW's and I was looking around... there is a forum... the guys there seemed up on things.. see what they say.
Old 08-13-2008, 06:05 AM
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yeah, man, that sounds like the shadiest thing I've ever heard from a dealership. Normally when a dealership replaces a motor they essentially bill it to the manufacturer who has to approve it. If a dealership starts replacing tons of motors and VW found out it was because they were telling people to use an oil they didn't recommend they're going to tell the dealer to eat the cost, which they're not going to do. Plus if it goes too soon they're going to say it was your driving style, you can't win this one. Put in good oil.

One of my clients who has a GT3RS just had his motor rebuilt for free at 50k miles because it was leaking oil, but someone from Porsche had to come to his dealership to approve it, and if he didn't go to one of two dealerships approved to rebuiling the GT3 motor they'd have had to ship the motor to CA or Brumos. Personally I think it's only because Brumos likes him, Porsche is famous for screwing over it's customers on warranty claims.
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:06 AM
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Let me clarify, the Dealer is a Used Car Dealer and are very reputable. (not 1970's type used car dealer).

They have a deal with QS to use QS exclusively in all the cars they service. So the dealer sells lots of QS Oil. This is common. If i go to another Services center, i need records stating they put QS Oil in the engine.

Should the engine fail , QS will pay for repairs.

This Protection Program only covers internally lubricated parts: cam shaft, bearings, rods, rockers, valve guides: etc.....

Oil must be changed every 4000 miles or 4 months.

Since they sell any make of vehicle, This seems like a fall through the cracks.

BUt I digress....

the point was what can I put into my engine (LIKE EOS THAT IS NOT AVAILABLE ANY MORE) to get me to the next oil change?
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Last edited by pmajka; 08-13-2008 at 07:43 AM..
Old 08-13-2008, 07:40 AM
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actually EOS is avalible again

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?vc=1&wtype=v4
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Old 08-13-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teenerted1 View Post

Its NOT the same as the original EOS formulation which had lots of ZDDP in it.
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Old 08-13-2008, 10:07 AM
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The dealer can go out of business ANY time. They can then re-appear as a different business with no problem.

But your guarantee will be worthless.
Old 08-13-2008, 10:49 AM
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Don't worry

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmajka View Post
The more I read, the more I learn, the more I Worry.

I just bought a 04 JEtta Turbo 1.8L....Dealership has a life time engine Guarantee, if I use Quaker State. QS doesnt make a CJ oil required by VW. Needs 5w40 or 5w30.

What can i add to my oil to get me to my next oil change?
I wouldn't worry about it. One oil change is not going to kill an engine. There are millions of 1.8 turbos running around with bulk oil in them. The QS bulk oil the dealer put in it is a good SL (maybe SM) oil that will be fine for normal street driving for one oil change interval. Sure there are a few horror stories too but the lileyhood of your car having a problem is about as likely as Britney Spears becoming a nun.

Just buy some good stuff for the next time.

Don
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmajka View Post
The more I read, the more I learn, the more I Worry.

I just bought a 04 JEtta Turbo 1.8L....Dealership has a life time engine Guarantee, if I use Quaker State. QS doesnt make a CJ oil required by VW. Needs 5w40 or 5w30.

What can i add to my oil to get me to my next oil change?
Ultimately, I would check with Volkwagen about what they recommend vs what is currently available.

Also, the need for high wear resistance is largely related to FLAT Tappet engines. If you have roller tappets (like most cars make after the mid-90's), then the issue may very well be moot.

Don' panic yet.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:23 PM
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I think i Err'd

They do make one....

Quaker State "Q" Horsepower Full Synthetic 5w40 meets VW 502.00 standard.
http://www.qpower.com/doc/PDS_HorsePower.pdf

sorry for false alarm...
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:32 PM
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Yes, I'd use a VW approved oil or an oil that at least exceeds that standard in your 1.8T. There were LOTS of dealerships who didn't use approved oils and customer's engines would die shortly after the warranty period from sludge and/or in the TDIs, cam/lifter failures. I use Motul's VW specific oils in my (and my parent's) new VW and Audi engines.
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #937 (permalink)
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Interesting read

Saw this over at Rennlist.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/index.html
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #938 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryD View Post
Thats a good article that has many applications for the 911 engine.

I really appreciated the mention about the need for adding additional oiling onto lifters and cam lobes; something that runs counter to the current 911 fad about installing oil restrictors in the cam tower oil lines,...

(Never catch me installing those darned things)
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport View Post
I really appreciated the mention about the need for adding additional oiling onto lifters and cam lobes; something that runs counter to the current 911 fad about installing oil restrictors in the cam tower oil lines,...

(Never catch me installing those darned things)
+1

Amen, Steve

RIP one set of rocker arms and camshafts.

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Old 09-09-2008, 07:24 AM
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