Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils - Page 48

bhyde · 09-10-2008, 06:50 AM

Well, after six months of intensive reading, I finally finished this thread. I think my head is going to explode. I noticed after my last oil change (GTX) more mechanical noise than previously (Mobil 1) and started to get a bit concerned. I’ll switch to Brad-Penn this time.
Thanks Charles for the great information. It’s hard to believe you know that much about oil AND are willing to share it for free. I love you man.

cnavarro · 09-10-2008, 10:42 AM

Honestly, I wish I had more time to do more testing and research. I just can't find the time every day to get everything I want to do done anymore!

I'm glad to share what knowledge I do have and where it is appropriate. By no means do I know everything and there are plenty of other contributors that I am sure have much more experience than me.

snbush67 · snbush67's Garage

I apologize in advance if these oils have all-ready been mentioned. Does anyone have any information (good or bad) on the performance and longevity of these oils?

Mobile 1 Vtwin 20w-50 $5.69 qt

Valvoline 20w-50 $3.99 qt

Lucas 20w-50 $5.99 qt (on sale, normally it is $10.29)

I ended up buying royal purple and changed the oil, filter and all my gaskets, in addition added a new "Mainly" billett sump plate from our host. For now I am "Leak Free" and the purple stuff seems to be doing well but I would rather pay less if I can get the same performance from a lower priced product.

Mahalo, Shane

cnavarro · 09-20-2008, 02:31 PM

Steer clear of the Lucas. It's crap. Anyone in the drag racing world knows that Lucas spends their money on advertising (and not their product or development). Those teams they sponsor don't run their oils :-)

The other oils mentioned should be just fine. I plan on testing the Valvoline 4-stroke eventually (once I get to it). I want to test in my 911 the V-Twin m1 and Motul 15w50 oils first, so it may be a while...

snbush67 · snbush67's Garage

Thanks Charles,

I thought that would be your answer on the Lucas oil, I read this thread in depth a long time ago, but just didn't have the energy to go back through it all. I really appreciate the information and testing results you have provided. Additionally I would like to thank Harry for his input and updates to this thread. It is guys like you that keep guys like me coming to this forum for information.

A Big Mahalo, Shane

356robo · 09-20-2008, 05:33 PM

Where do you get Mobil 1 VTwin for that price. I have paid about $9.

Rob

jpahemi · 09-20-2008, 08:02 PM

Seems odd that we're turning to motorcycle oil formulations for the aircooled 911 engines...

jp

rajah911 · 09-20-2008, 08:13 PM

Not really JP, when you consider that most motorcycle engines are air-cooled.

Frankly, I wouldn't have even thought of the idea of using a 'motorcycle' engine oil, but if it fits the bill, then why not

Steve

jpahemi · 09-20-2008, 08:16 PM

Why are they priced so much higher. Is it due to a smaller market??

jp

Wavey · 09-21-2008, 09:05 AM

I switched from M1 to Brad Penn a couple of months ago and I'm a little concerned about how it's performing.

I started using M1 15-50 when I bought the car in '02, at 62K miles, and started adding the GM EOS about a year ago, when the change in formulation became known. I never had any leaks from the M1, and once I started using the "idle before shut down" I seldom had any smoke on start-up, and no smoking when driving.

I have about 1100 miles on the Brad Penn, and the car is using quite a bit more oil and smoking more. It's used 1 qt in that time, whereas I was using 2 quarts in 6K miles with the M1, so that a 3X increase in oil usage. It hasn't returned to smoking on start-up, so that's good. But it's smoking noticeably when sitting at stoplights, and I assume it's burning more oil all the time.

Other observations: when I did the change, I noticed that the BP is quite a bit more viscous than the M1. You can feel the difference in the engine's willingness to rev until it's up to temp. The engine is generally a little quieter all the time with the BP. Haven't seen any new leaks.

But this smoking issue is annoying enough to make me want to switch back to M1, V-twin formula this time. Anyone else have this problem?

Flieger · Flieger's Garage

The BP has no Molybdenum friction modifiers, as opposed to the Swepco which Mr. Navarro also recommends. This can result in a little more hydrodynamic drag on bearings from the increased viscosity while revving a "cold" engine which is not fully up to operating temperature. More drag = a little slower to rev before it is warm.

Don't know what to say about the increased oil consumption.

ToddM · ToddM's Garage

I switched to BP last change.

Granted I went from a 20/50 grade Shell to a 10/40 BP blend, but I went from a 1 drop a week leak at the cam covers to oil everywhere with a nice mess to clean up and gaskets I am now forced to replace.

I'll go back to 20/50 with BP and see where things are. Guess my warning is to not change down viscosity grades if you have oil leaks.

KNS · 09-21-2008, 10:10 AM

Hmmm, I switched to Brad Penn about 500 miles ago and my leaks seemed to have diminished...

cnavarro · 09-21-2008, 11:16 AM

Leaks and oil consumption can be hit or miss. My 964 used about 1 qt every 700ish miles on M1 and with the Brad Penn it's down to about 1/2 a quart ever 3000 mi, or something around that mark. Usually I get comments on par with my observations. I think I have had one negative one with respect to fuel dilution in a race engine compared to with Redline - the only way to make such a differentiation is to do oil sampling. Since I had never pulled a sample of m1 15w50 from my 964 for used oil analysis, I managed to get my hands on some old pre-reformulation m1 and that's what's in my 911 now for comparison. I can tell you that the engine does not feel as smooth as it did with the Brad Penn in it. I'll be putting in m1 v-twin 20w50 next, again for the purpose of pulling comparison samples.

snbush67 · snbush67's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 356robo

Where do you get Mobil 1 VTwin for that price. I have paid about $9.

Rob

At the Navy Exchange in Pearl Harbor.

PatrickB · PatrickB's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavey

I switched from M1 to Brad Penn a couple of months ago and I'm a little concerned about how it's performing.

I started using M1 15-50 when I bought the car in '02, at 62K miles, and started adding the GM EOS about a year ago, when the change in formulation became known. I never had any leaks from the M1, and once I started using the "idle before shut down" I seldom had any smoke on start-up, and no smoking when driving.

I have about 1100 miles on the Brad Penn, and the car is using quite a bit more oil and smoking more. It's used 1 qt in that time, whereas I was using 2 quarts in 6K miles with the M1, so that a 3X increase in oil usage. It hasn't returned to smoking on start-up, so that's good. But it's smoking noticeably when sitting at stoplights, and I assume it's burning more oil all the time.

Other observations: when I did the change, I noticed that the BP is quite a bit more viscous than the M1. You can feel the difference in the engine's willingness to rev until it's up to temp. The engine is generally a little quieter all the time with the BP. Haven't seen any new leaks.

But this smoking issue is annoying enough to make me want to switch back to M1, V-twin formula this time. Anyone else have this problem?

I was experiencing similar conditions with M1-15w50. Switched to M1 V-Twin, and almost eliminated all smoking issues... I switched to Red Line 20w60 VTwin, as it was much easier to purchase. This stuff has virtually eliminated ALL smoking issues, and consumption has decreased as well. My local Napa store stocks the entire line of Red Line products. Nice thing about Red line, they have a full line of VTwin Oil - 10w30, 10w40, 20w50, and 20w60. I chose the 20w60, as I live in a predominantly warm climate, and the majority of my time in the car is at the track...

Flieger · Flieger's Garage

I want to merge these threads to keep all the information in an easy to reference place.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/432060-zddp-levels-really-important-seriously-post4204991.html?posted=1#post4204991

sp_cs · 09-27-2008, 02:45 PM

Charles

Would appreciate your thoughts on Amsoil 10w/40 Synthetic Premium Protection Oil

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/amo.aspx

The blurb on the link suggests it would be a good fit for aircooled engines? Mine has just been rebuilt to 3.4, just completing the first 1000 miles and looking for a new fill.

Thanks

cnavarro · 09-27-2008, 03:44 PM

I don't recommend their street oils, as they are designed for long drains = lots of detergent.

Their motorcycle formulations have a bit less at an average TBN of 11, and I know from testing at least the 20w50 version, that it's a great oil for both hp and wear. They make it in a 10w40 too, but the HTHS viscosity of the 20w50 is one of the highest if not the highest of any 20w50 I have ever seen. With the Brad Penn with it's average TBN of 10, 5-6k drain intervals (changing when TBN is at 5) for street are no problem. I would imagine with the Amsoil motorcycle versions you could go a bit longer too.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mcv.aspx

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I use AMSOIL 20W50 and have noticed a 10 degree drop in engine temp (as measured by the dash gauge) in the 18months or so that I've been using it. I change it once a year and put about 6k a year on the car, but obnly during nice weather, stored in the winter.