Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[767driver]

TCB... yes, the Brad Penn, Penn Grade-1, 20-50 racing oil IS partial synthetic.

[afterburn 549]

OK just to throw the left handed monkey wrench in, I just read at an other site that Brad P. dropped the amount of zinc and boron in their stuff too.

[2002M3Drew]

I found this 4/09 Mobil One spec chart. What am I missing here? Minimum Zinc and Phosphorus levels are 1200/1300 PPM, and the application chart clearly states "for flat tappet applications."

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

In any event, before seeing that, I had been looking into the Joe Gibbs oils. I spoke with the nice folks over there, and the Joe Gibbs Driven Hot Rod formulation that they sell seems to have exactly what these motors need. They combine the synthetic oil from their racing line of oil with a detergent package, as well as a preservative oil package that is apparently the same used in the US Military. The idea here is that if your "hot rod" is stored for winters or other long periods of sitting, the additives protect on start up. The nominal ZDDP is in the 1300 ppm range. The price is somewhat high, but not crazy, at around $10.50 a quart.

I bought from a local dirt track engine builder in NJ, and he said that he constantly builds and tears down flat tappet race motors, and he defiitely saw the damage to his motors after Mobil 1 switched formulations. He tried a bunch of alternatives in his customers cars before settling on the Joe Gibbs line (the XP racing line). He also carries the Hot Rod for street driven Vettes, etc.

[WERK I]

According to the Mobil 1 web site the Mobil 1 Extended Performance synthetic 15W-50 was discontinued approx May of '09.
Mobil 1 Q&A

[2002M3Drew]

So then the regular 15-50 would seem to be adequate by specs, right? 1200-1300 ppm of both zn and phosphorus? Have we gone full circle?

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by 2002M3Drew

So then the regular 15-50 would seem to be adequate by specs, right? 1200-1300 ppm of both zn and phosphorus? Have we gone full circle?

IMHO, I would not assume that. Mobil 1 found it convenient not to publish the specs (phosphorous and Zinc) on that oil.

[GothingNC]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

OK just to throw the left handed monkey wrench in, I just read at an other site that Brad P. dropped the amount of zinc and boron in their stuff too.

Can you provide details?

[cnavarro]

That's good news that the extended performance product got canned. Long drain intervals are not what we need in a high-performance oil!

Brad Penn has not changed anything. There can be sampling and testing issues that we've discussed before. If there is any concern, the guys at Brad Penn are real enthusiasts and they're easy enough to get on the phone to ask for the facts, straight from the horse's mouth.

It is possible that their non-racing/performance 20w50 non-racing oil somehow got tested, I've had people tell me that they coincidently ordered the wrong product. Brad Penn does make lots of other oils...

[2002M3Drew]

Originally Posted by WERK-I

IMHO, I would not assume that. Mobil 1 found it convenient not to publish the specs (phosphorous and Zinc) on that oil.

That attachment I posted above is from Exxon Mobil and dated 4/2009, and is DOES state that the nominal Phosphorus is 1200 ppm, and the nominal Zinc is 1300 ppm in the regular 15W-50 Mobil 1.

[RWebb]

Thx for clarifying that Charles.

BTW - In post #1028 (!) you warned about Valvoline VR-1, and then said:

The only Valvoline products I would recommend would be their ... and their true Racing oils, available in a non-synthetic or full syn 20w50."

How would someone recognize the full synthetics 20w50 "true" racing oil? How would one distinguish it from a can of 20w50 VR-1?

Thx - I can get it locally, but not the Brad Penn.

[cnavarro]

The Valvoline Racing oil says on the label "non street legal" and is this product:

http://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-VV851-Racing-STREET-Bottles/dp/B000GAP42I

Amazon has the best price on it, of all places. About half what my local Napa charges for it as that is the only retail source for it.

I'll also clarify on the Brad Penn, just pulled a sample after 10 track hours and it still had 1300 ppm Zn and 1150 ppm P. Performed pretty much identically to the Mobil 1 motorcycle that was run after it verified by used oil analysis. For comparison, I just sent in the last 10 hour run with 0w40 mobil 1 to see how it compares. (all in our track boxster)

[afterburn 549]

I have not ever been a big Valvoline fan...but on the label it states high zinc content and the tech rep states it is about 13 PPM.
So to be fair (and I used it as I was desperate) I cant see why the problem

[BSNMOE]

I enjoy reading all of these oil discussions but I'm starting to wonder why we just don't settle on what is the best oil for our Porsche. I mean the best for lower temperature, HP gains, zinc, etc.. Forget about convenience and price! There are times when we spend $8.00 for a glass wine at dinner when the whole bottle costs $17.00.

[bkreigsr]

fwiw, my last analysis showed the following (with comparable miles for each sample- 1,800-2,100)
zinc: BP racing 20-50-- @ 1252 ppm
Valvolene racing 20-50 @ 1196 ppm
universal average = 1093 ppm
Bill K

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by 2002M3Drew

That attachment I posted above is from Exxon Mobil and dated 4/2009, and is DOES state that the nominal Phosphorus is 1200 ppm, and the nominal Zinc is 1300 ppm in the regular 15W-50 Mobil 1.

That's why I don't trust the table. It's too close to the date, May '09, when Mobil 1 pulled the 15W-50 Ext Performance oil off the shelf.

[teenerted1]

Originally Posted by WERK-I

That's why I don't trust the table. It's too close to the date, May '09, when Mobil 1 pulled the 15W-50 Ext Performance oil off the shelf.

even though the chart has already eliminated the extended performance variation? both versions of 15-50 were on there in the past

do you also not believe the link YOU posted to the mobil site too?

[WERK I]

I don't know why my previous post is so confusing. If marketing posts a table in April and then yanks the oil in May, how can one be sure of which 15W-50 Mobil 1 is referring to in the table? That's why I don't trust the validity of the table. The link I provided stated the oil (extended performance) was discontinued in May of '09. Doing a google search on Mobil 1 15W-50 Extended Performance clearly states the Zn and Phos content, but the new 15W-50 does not on the Mobil spec pdf file.

Let's face it, are most major oil suppliers going to come out with an oil with adequate Zinc and Phosphorous for flat tappet engines when they know this will drastically reduce catalytic converters longevity?

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by BSNMOE

I enjoy reading all of these oil discussions but I'm starting to wonder why we just don't settle on what is the best oil for our Porsche. I mean the best for lower temperature, HP gains, zinc, etc.. Forget about convenience and price! There are times when we spend $8.00 for a glass wine at dinner when the whole bottle costs $17.00.

What, haven't you been keeping up with the 100 page thread on oil? Actually, this short thread (so far) should have told you all you wanted to know.

However, if thus far unsatisfied, you could be the perfect demographic for automotive accessory companies who market cost-is-no-object-for-"boutique"-car-products, like the Joe Gibbs Racing oil at $15/qt. and other relabeled oils on the market for discerning buyers who simply want the "best". The Griot catalog is yet another solution for the plight of enthusiasts with too much money to spend.

And people wonder about Porsche owners paying a Porsche tax on seemingly regular stuff.

Sherwood

[RWebb]

bsnmoe - just buy brad penn

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

What, haven't you been keeping up with the 100 page thread on oil? Actually, this short thread (so far) should have told you all you wanted to know.

However, if thus far unsatisfied, you could be the perfect demographic for automotive accessory companies who market cost-is-no-object-for-"boutique"-car-products, like the Joe Gibbs Racing oil at $15/qt. and other relabeled oils on the market for discerning buyers who simply want the "best". The Griot catalog is yet another solution for the plight of enthusiasts with too much money to spend.

And people wonder about Porsche owners paying a Porsche tax on seemingly regular stuff.

Sherwood

Sherwood,
Some folks are quite interested in the topic of this thread as it pertains to the longevity of their flat tappet motors..Given your penchant for flaming the folks who are interested in this thread, what the heck are you are you doing here!!!