Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[afterburn 549]

Pardon my amature engimneering here....But I think most A/C engines have the cam shaft located below the crank in the bath of the oil...(immersed) most the time,,,,they are not dry sump systems..I think the data from this engine used as a "control" is flawed"

[dshepp806]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Pardon my amature engimneering here....But I think most A/C engines have the cam shaft located below the crank in the bath of the oil...(immersed) most the time,,,,they are not dry sump systems..I think the data from this engine used as a "control" is flawed"

Rest assured, ours IS dry sump!

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Pardon my amature engimneering here....But I think most A/C engines have the cam shaft located below the crank in the bath of the oil...(immersed) most the time,,,,they are not dry sump systems..I think the data from this engine used as a "control" is flawed"

Some are and some aren't: Continental's are usually below the crank, Lycoming's are above the crank. All horizontal engines are wet sump, radial engines are all dry-sump.

[afterburn 549]

MY point is....if the control engine is wet sump and a cam below the crank, the experiment in words is a wast of time,
A/C engines run modest lift and sloppy tolerances, Would make a Harley engine look good

[Wil Ferch]

As we debate the SM oils and the merits of ZDDP.....let's look at this paragraph from a leading oil journal that publishes in the indiustrial arena,... note the bolded highlights ( by me)--->

"..... The most common anti-wear additives include ZDDP, tricresyl phosphate (TCP) and other phosphorus compounds. These additive materials form stable inorganic films (Zn phosphides, Fe phosphides, etc.) under boundary lubrication conditions. Environmental concerns have put pressure on the lubricant industry to reduce the amount of phosphorous and sulfur in lubricating and hydraulic fluids. One way to address this problem is to take advantage of the synergistic effect between ZDDP and organic molybdenum compounds that reduces the amount of ZDDP a lubricant requires......"

Anyone who is "well-versed" on this topic care to comment that maybe lower ZDDP all by itself may not be so bad afterall if we know more about the "brew" used in the oils we're investigating???

[HarryD]

Hi Wil:

Good point. I do not think that Moly is a bad thing. In post 623, Charles Navarro said:

Originally Posted by cnavarro

I've been doing more reading into moly based anti-wear/friction modifier additives, and there are quite a few different species, some that provide better wear than others and some that even interfere with the Zn and P. It's a very complicated subject, and delving into areas of proprietary formulation that VOAs can't even begin to answer. We will have to assume that the moly, if used, is optimal for wear reduction even at the tradeoff of not giving the best friction reduction (HP gains). So just because an oil makes more horsepower over another of the same viscosity because of reduced friction, that doesn't necessary translate to better wear. I think that's one of the many hurdles you have to get over when trying to make heads or tails of this whole oil mess.

[Flieger]

So ZDDP gives anti-wear and less friction than Moly, even though Moly keeps the cams protected just as well?

[Wil Ferch]

Fleiger:
I wouldn't make that great a leap....look at my bolded info above. The oil companies horse around with their brews and I'm sure it's not as simple as all that....otherwise this kind of thread wouldn't have over 1500 entries. My point was to get someone "inside" the industry who reads this...to comment on the basis that reduced ZDDP, that we all are worried about since the advent of the latest oil formualtions.....might not be all that bad once we know the synergistic affects of other elements ( like certain Moly compounds, and maybe not pure moly) that are added. Maybe we're OK.....would like some oil experts to chime-in.

[Kaliv]

So I'm looking for an oil in my area, and I can't easily get Swepco or Brad Penn. So I'm looking at this site that I got to my way on link from lnengineering, and I'm putting together 20w50 oil with non- CJ-4, SM, or SL ratings.

cOMPANY Search Results

What I find is O'Reilly oil...which isn't really a popular brand name, but I know I can find it...and as a side bonus, it's cheap. Opinions on if this would be a decent oil? Or should I stick with more popular brand names to be a reliable oil? I think also on the list was Shell Performance. I think I might be able to find that.

[RWebb]

use VR-1 or mail order Brad Penn - $5/qt. free shipping at Amazon, or support Charles by mail ordering from him

or get Swepco from Wayne

everybody needs a few cases of oil in their garage

[nize]

Originally Posted by RWebb

or mail order Brad Penn - $5/qt. free shipping at Amazon

can you provide a link for this price? all of the ones i've found add shipping extra.

[RWebb]

no link but it's what I did - just get into Amazon & search

but like I said, others have since picked up these oils as mail order offerings: think about helping out Charles who did all the research on this & Wayne who provides this forum, depending on which oil you get - one concours guy on here only uses the Swepco

[brads911sc]

GT1 (Kendall) and VR1 Racing (Valvoline)... both tested fine in Charles tests. No need for mail order or shipping.

GT1 can be gotten at Most OReilly and VR1 can be gotten at most Autozone's. $10 cheaper per case and no shipping is a secondary advantage.

[brads911sc]

Not true (today). When you order from Amazon you are ordering from Hoerr Racing Products... the shipping was $6.80 for a single quart of oil. They only had two quarts in stock (20w50).. so that was all you could even attempt to order.

VR1 or GT1 are much more convenient and are listed as good choices by Charles... we have some choices...

Originally Posted by RWebb

use VR-1 or mail order Brad Penn - $5/qt. free shipping at Amazon, or support Charles by mail ordering from him

or get Swepco from Wayne

everybody needs a few cases of oil in their garage

[RWebb]

it was true when I ordered it - I just checked the online receipt

no idea what the situation is today as I'm still working thru my oil stockpile


IRC, Shell Rotella T tested out fine -- you can get it all over

[brads911sc]

Agree. These deals change fast.

You might also call them and ask them for a local supplier. That is also constantly changing. When I first looked for Brad Penn... there was no one in Houston that sold it. Now there is and its only 10 min from my house... They arent selling it for $5 a qt, and I have had alot of good experiences with GT1, but I might have to rethink that now that I am in the middle of a total rebuild... But the point is to call them once in awhile to find out if a distributor was added...

Originally Posted by RWebb

it was true when I ordered it - I just checked the online receipt

no idea what the situation is today as I'm still working thru my oil stockpile


IRC, Shell Rotella T tested out fine -- you can get it all over

[RWebb]

IIRC, people near PDX can get it from Steve W.

bring your own wine barrel...

[Scooter]

I have my local supplier. His price is a little higher than $5 and he doesn't take credit.

[SRT356/911]

There are ways to get SWEPCO at a good price. Someone becomes a dealer. You buy for several of your friends. Cases at time. If you buy over $500 worth at a pop, SWEPCO does not charge you shipping. SWEPCO will put you in touch with a distributor.

I am just placing an order for 7 cases at $142 per case. SWEPCO will also send you your first case without charging shipping. After that you pay shipping.

[McLovin]

I ordered Brad Penn 20/50 off Amazon a week ago (received very quick), it was exactly $7.00/qt, free shipping.