Post your ITB Setup

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by antares

O.K. ... So after some 19 pages of Gold Card vibrato stories and selfies, just what kinda highway steady ankle throttle mpg's is everyone realistically now getting with 6 throttle bodies instead of having just one ? ... yeah it matters.

I got 25 on my way back from PA last August.

I've also been chasing that number since...but haven't been on any long highway runs since. I'll circle back in 11 days. Heading to TN/NC next week.

[Charlie V]

Originally Posted by antares

O.K. ... So after some 19 pages of Gold Card vibrato stories and selfies, just what kinda highway steady ankle throttle mpg's is everyone realistically now getting with 6 throttle bodies instead of having just one ? ... yeah it matters.

My 3.2 short stroke gets mid 20s (for imperial gallons - I'm Canadian eh!) at steady highway speeds. Canyon carving is mid to high teens - that is hard on the loud pedal with lots of rpm.

I'm running fairly rich. People don't like to follow me because of the smell, but the rolling flames are entertaining.

[sbrown.nw]

What coil are you all running if you are still running a coil / distributor setup with your EFI ITB config? Al put a new MSD 8222 Blaster High Vibration Ignition Coil in and says it pairs well with his Option 2 kit. I still have my original one in the parts box.

Thanks,

Scott

[merlinfe]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

What coil are you all running if you are still running a coil / distributor setup with your EFI ITB config? Al put a new MSD 8222 Blaster High Vibration Ignition Coil in and says it pairs well with his Option 2 kit. I still have my original one in the parts box.

Thanks,

Scott

Scott, I’d use the one Al recommended. He’s done this a while and knows what’s what. Save your stock one for later.

-Steve

[chrisbalich]

Can anyone confirm if wide injectors (~1" or 25mm) will fit in the Triumph ITBs?
I think I saw two pics in this thread with them, but would like confirmation before I order a new set.

Thanks, gents.

[iamheretolurk]

Finally had my car dropped off to be dyno tuned. My 2.7 is running an RHD setup from Al at X Faktory with Megasquirt ECU. Running race headers, custom exhaust, MSD CDI and coil. Need to get my internals beefed up but got 171 at wheels, estimated 210 at the crank.

[911 SLANT]

Originally Posted by iamheretolurk

Finally had my car dropped off to be dyno tuned. Running an RHD setup from Al at X Faktory with Megasquirt ECU. Running race headers, custom exhaust, MSD CDI and coil. Need to get my internals beefed up but got 171 at wheels, estimated 210 at the crank.

What size motor are you running? Any internal mods? Exhaust?

[al lkosmal]

Hi Nick,
thanks for posting that cool dyno video and results. If i remember correctly you have a stock 2.7S CIS motor. Is that right?
If so, stock 2.7S was rated at 165 crank....so the combo of headers, sport muffler and ITBs gained you 27%........regards,
al

[icarp]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

Sounds good and thanks for the info. Al's kit has shown very nice dyno numbers on a 3.2 setup similar to mine along with a somewhat gracious dyno.
I cannot wait to drive my new setup.

Would you consider the CatCams similar to a webcam 20/21 or 964 cam?

The cat cams are closer to a 993 super sport , 964 cam , 20-21 cam , 911sc cam
These Are all based on an emissions goal, not performance

the 993 ss is for bigger motors but seems to work on the 2.7
Just my thoughts
Ian

[sbrown.nw]

Hi and liked the video as it has a happy ending. Can you provide some more details about why the car was running poorly before the tune? Looks the part of the reason was the O2 sensor. How old was the sensor? Did you replace it? If so, which one did you replace it with? Also, is it possible to post the initial and final dyno graphs?

TIA,

Scott

Originally Posted by iamheretolurk

Finally had my car dropped off to be dyno tuned. Running an RHD setup from Al at X Faktory with Megasquirt ECU. Running race headers, custom exhaust, MSD CDI and coil. Need to get my internals beefed up but got 171 at wheels, estimated 210 at the crank.

[iamheretolurk]

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

Hi Nick,
thanks for posting that cool dyno video and results. If i remember correctly you have a stock 2.7S CIS motor. Is that right?
If so, stock 2.7S was rated at 165 crank....so the combo of headers, sport muffler and ITBs gained you 27%........regards,
al

Al, you're spot on! Stock 2.7 motor aside from full bolt ons

The whole setup has definitely woken the car up from the dead, its a hoot to drive.

[iamheretolurk]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

Hi and liked the video as it has a happy ending. Can you provide some more details about why the car was running poorly before the tune? Looks the part of the reason was the O2 sensor. How old was the sensor? Did you replace it? If so, which one did you replace it with? Also, is it possible to post the initial and final dyno graphs?

TIA,

Scott

Sensor was actually brand new from Al and the team, and according to its self calibrating values at startup, it supposedly is accurate. I'm likely going to be replacing it after trying a new sensor if that doesn't help.

The tune that Al provides out the gate is perfectly fine for driving around when you first get started - speed density, pretty fat and rich in most areas for safety. But when you wanna dial the car in, Alpha-N is generally advised for ITBs and the whole tune had to be re-done. Al is upfront that he recommends a tuner to look over the car once you're up and running.

And yes, ill grab some dyno graphs - we're actually doing a follow up as I fixed a few things that weren't right with the car - cam timing, valve adjustments and a few other odds and ends

[al lkosmal]

Originally Posted by iamheretolurk

Al, you're spot on! Stock 2.7 motor aside from full bolt ons

The whole setup has definitely woken the car up from the dead, its a hoot to drive.

you made some good choices.....headers and a sport muffler will typically get you to about 180 on a stock CIS 2.7S.....when you added ITBs you got another nice bump. That is awesome.

The start up files are typcailly good to get you up and running and then the tuning really begins.

The o2 controller/sensor, i provide either an Innovate or a 14point7, both use Bosch sensors and need to be setup properly in the Tunerstudio program. i prefer the 14point7, it tends to be more accurate and durable.



This is the setup for the 14poimt7 unit. Check to see that your setup matches this...i expect that it doesn't and that is causing the offset from the dyno unit. (the TunerStudio 14point7 defaul appears to be incorrect)

When it comes down to the choices between tuning modes, I will choose Speed Density (MAP/RPM) if there is a good MAP signal, which you will likely have with your mild cams. MAP is a better indication of engine load vs. Alpha-N which just uses the position of the butterflies (throttle), regardless of engine load. If the MAP signal is weak, I tune with Alpha-N.....both methods work well. For Accel Enrichment, I tend to use TPSdot, sometimes with a bit of MAPdot blend.

Nice job with the project Nick......your tune, although a little rough running/rich, dynoed at 168.6HP/153.4TQ....your tuner smoothed out the tune/AFRs and the after dyno run was 171HP/145.2TQ.......so not a big power gain, but much better drivability I'm sure. And that in my opinion, is the most important aspect of the tune...get as much power as you can....with good drivability. I've seen too many people go after the highest numbers they can get, for bragging rights, but sacrifice the tune somewhat where you use it most......your tuner was smart and did a great job.

Note: unless you have the EGO control turned on for closed loop control, the o2 sensor has no effect on how the engine runs....as it just reports the measured AFRs. ......Once you have the engine tuned, using the o2 sensor for tuning purposes, you could completely remove the o2 sensor and not effect the tune.

regards,
al

[sbrown.nw]

I got my dyno tune yesterday. Was excited to see the improvements of the final result, especially the drivability of the car as the VE table needed a lot of cleaning up, AFR needed a lot of tweaking and I had a temp sensor reading inconsistently which required a zero out of the table to stop a random rich condition. Green run is dyno with 3.2 factory intake and Steve Wong chip, red run is baseline for x-faktory kit, blue run is final tune and run for x-faktory kit. Was really hoping for 200+ max torque and 210+ max hp. Does anyone have any recommendations why I am not seeing these numbers? Also, it feels like I've lost a step over my previous setup with throttle response. Leak down numbers on my euro 3.2 are 3% or better.

[antares]

Because that's all ya gonna get. Welcome to the Gold Card ITB Club. My advice is sell the ITB set-up to someone else ( who does not have access to a dyno ) who truly believes they too are gonna get 3.6 performance h.p. by throwing $ 6k into a 3.0 or 3.2. without first gutting the engine and spending another $ 10k on internals ... or purchase a 3.6 and put ITB's on that. The more volume of air the engine can take in per length of stroke or number of strokes in a given time frame the more fuel it can efficiently accommodate and the bigger the gains in h.p & torque. Changing nothing but a cam or method of fuel delivery will deliver about the same amount in gains.

[sbrown.nw]

Then why are some subscribers to this thread posting much higher percentage increases post ITB setup (with backing before / after dyno runs) than my numbers? I was really under the impression I would see more of an increase.

Scott

Originally Posted by antares

Because that's all ya gonna get. Welcome to the Gold Card ITB Club. My advice is sell the ITB set-up to someone else ( who does not have access to a dyno ) who truly believes they too are gonna get 3.6 performance h.p. by throwing $ 6k into a 3.0 or 3.2. without first gutting the engine and spending another $ 10k on internals ... or purchase a 3.6 and put ITB's on that. The more volume of air the engine can take in per length of stroke or number of strokes in a given time frame the more fuel it can efficiently accommodate and the bigger the gains in h.p & torque. Changing nothing but a cam or method of fuel delivery will deliver about the same amount in gains.

[merlinfe]

Originally Posted by antares

Because that's all ya gonna get. Welcome to the Gold Card ITB Club. My advice is sell the ITB set-up to someone else ( who does not have access to a dyno ) who truly believes they too are gonna get 3.6 performance h.p. by throwing $ 6k into a 3.0 or 3.2. without first gutting the engine and spending another $ 10k on internals ... or purchase a 3.6 and put ITB's on that. The more volume of air the engine can take in per length of stroke or number of strokes in a given time frame the more fuel it can efficiently accommodate and the bigger the gains in h.p & torque. Changing nothing but a cam or method of fuel delivery will deliver about the same amount in gains.

Why ruin a pretty good thread with this? “Gold Card ITB Club”? Who cares how people spend their money? If you don’t like what you see, move on!

If you can’t say anything nice ( or at the very least constructive) don’t say anything at all.

[sbrown.nw]

I agree with you in principle about antares post but I also see some of his point, especially since I seem to be validating it first hand by only seeing a minimal upgrade plus losing a step in throttle response. After learning what I know now, I would have not done the upgrade. To pour salt in the wounds, I am having delivery tune issues.
The whole tune needs to be redone as it was quite incomplete, subpar and possibly rushed (the lead tech dyno tuner's words, not mine) and there seems to be a malfunctioning temp sensor, plus other delivery issues that I will not go into details here. Additionally, I cannot revert back to the factory intake given the expense and I would have to repurchase the system from the Pelican buyer I sold it to. Even then, I don't think a return option would be considered, even with the fact that the upgrade took over 2 months.

Really leaves a sour feeling in your stomach,

Scott

Originally Posted by merlinfe

Why ruin a pretty good thread with this? “Gold Card ITB Club”? Who cares how people spend their money? If you don’t like what you see, move on!

If you can’t say anything nice ( or at the very least constructive) don’t say anything at all.

[antares]

@merlinfe ... Grow a new one ... No one is ruining anything or saying anything baddy unless I suppose they interpreted it that way and infringes upon their fantasies. Apparently, that bothers some. Simple Truths ... Simple Facts. Guys are wondering why they are not getting what they have been led to believe they can get and uncle dave explained the facts. The truth is the truth, nothing nice or mean about. If you don't like that then stop your finger pointing and move on.

[BLACK3.2]

Originally Posted by sbrown.nw

I agree with you in principle about antares post but I also see some of his point, especially since I seem to be validating it first hand by only seeing a minimal upgrade plus losing a step in throttle response. After learning what I know now, I would have not done the upgrade. To pour salt in the wounds, I am having delivery tune issues.
The whole tune needs to be redone as it was quite incomplete, subpar and possibly rushed (the lead tech dyno tuner's words, not mine) and there seems to be a malfunctioning temp sensor, plus other delivery issues that I will not go into details here. Additionally, I cannot revert back to the factory intake given the expense and I would have to repurchase the system from the Pelican buyer I sold it to. Even then, I don't think a return option would be considered, even with the fact that the upgrade took over 2 months.

Really leaves a sour feeling in your stomach,

Scott

Why didn’t you have Al do your tune? He installed ITBs on my 964, and did the tune. It is almost perfect. I’m going back for adjustments eventually, but that’s expected with custom work. I recently took it to Cantrells for some exhaust work and they were so impressed with the tune they asked for Al’s contact info. There are a couple of ITB conversion cars in there tuned by other tuners with tip in and surging issues.