After 21 years... she's leaving

[LeeH]

For the record, I've never felt the OP of a thread owned it or that subsequent posts has to all related to the original post. In other words... it's doesn't have to be all about me.

I do really appreciate all of the honest posts about what your divorces looked like. I'm still very hopeful that when we come out the other side that we'll still be very good friends. Do I think it will be smooth sailing all the way? Well, you never know. I think we're both strongly averse to anything resembling a long, drawn out battle.

My hope is that we'll find a good mediator who will listen and guide us through the process. If I want a certain outcome and the mediator tells me that in the event of our situation being put before a judge, that outcome will never happen, then I'll simply re-evaluate. Likewise, if the mediator explains that my request WOULD likely be granted by a judge, that she will re-evaluate. Personally, I could see the whole thing being wrapped up in an hour.

Neither of us has any attachment to the stuff. I told her to take anything she wanted out of the house. She took all the good kitchen stuff, which makes perfect since as she's the accomplished cook. We had enough duplicates, that I can get by on what's left and will just buy anything I need.

So far, all of our communications have been kind, cordial, and respectful. I really don't see any reason that can't continue that way until the process is finalized. I'm committed to doing my part to minimize the pain and suffering for everyone involved. That doesn't mean I'm going to roll over and play dead, it just means I'm going be taking the high road where possible and won't be concerned about a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars. She's an extremely intelligent woman who wants to move on just as badly as I do, so I fully expect her to act in a reasonable manner throughout the process.

[porsche4life]

Lee, knowing her, I think you guys will be fine.


And if you need any kitchen stuff let me know. Still got all mine packed away from moving out here, was heading to the garage sale pile.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

A mediator will not tell you that (and they I don't think are even allowed to). A lawyer will - a decent one should be able to not just recite what the law says but provide insights into what - based on actual experience - your likely outcomes are if you go to trial. In my brother's case he was told point-blank that he was likely to lose everything and get walloped with "child support" (har-har - more like "play money for the ex"), alimony, loss of the house, kids and pretty much everything else. He is a smart guy but naively / stupidly thought fairness and common sense would prevail. Big mistake - one he'll be paying for that one for the rest of his life. Trust me, as a male, the results of any trial won't be good for you. If you won't listen to a bunch of guys with anecdotal evidence on the Interweb (and in fairness you probably shouldn't - do your own homework), you should talk to an attorney who might be able to convince you with some statistics - maybe you'll listen to them...

In any case, lawyer up now and spend an hour or two really listening to him or her. You sound like a nice guy but one who desperately needs to have your proverbial head dunked in ice water to sober you up to the reality that you will be lucky to get out of this process with a pot left to to piss in. Deciding who gets some place mats and measuring cups isn't the hard stuff (although some people do spend hours fighting over pettier things than that, so it's good you at least got that much settled). However, wait until you start deciding who gets the tens of thousands of dollars in so-and-so's annuity or who has the right to so-and-so's life insurance policy value, who gets the equity in the house or the cars or who gets the kids and when. Wait until you find out she intends to keep the kids on every holiday and if you don't like it, too damn bad. Think you'll be so agreeable then? Sooner or later you're going to run into something about which you will not be so agreeable then and at that point she will lawyer up (if she hasn't already, which I'd bet she has) so if you don't you'll already be at an even bigger disadvantage.

You're a smart guy. Don't be stupid about this - get a lawyer. Now. I can guarantee she has one or very shortly will. If she says she doesn't, don't believe her. She does. As of this moment you cannot trust a single word she ever says to you ever again. She is lying to you, she has been lying to you and she will continue to lie to you as long as you're dumb enough to let yourself be put at a disadvantage and exploited by it. She no longer cares about what happens to you, I've got news for ya'. "De Nial" ain't just a river in Egypt, my man. You need a guide. Get one. Please.

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Lee, knowing her, I think you guys will be fine.


And if you need any kitchen stuff let me know. Still got all mine packed away from moving out here, was heading to the garage sale pile.

Thanks Sydney. Very generous of you. I think I'm just a few pots/pans away from having everything I'll need. Looked at Costco a couple of weeks ago and saw that decent sets just aren't that expensive.

[daepp]

Wow.

I'm Married 28 years, 3 kids, rocky but together. Working harder than ever to make it work. We each have our broken-ness; are in therapy both individually and together.

This has been a cathartic read. And I believe honest too. Thanks for that honesty, and Crowbob's storytelling. It has been insightful - helpful.

Again - thanks to all.

[LeeH]

Porsche -O-Phile - I appreciate your opinion, but you don't know enough about me, my future ex, or our situation to speak with such authority.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

I married a good man, had wonderful kids, was incredibly happy. I thought I was living this amazing dream come true. But, where my love grew over time, his did not... it became apparent that he was going through the motions, probably for the kids.

No one should be so unhappy in a relationship - I knew I would survive, and I knew we could carry on as friends and make sure our kids were raised in loving homes. I asked him if he wanted out, he looked so relieved.... We made it work. I never got alimony, and almost no support - I made at least what he did, and over time made more. Never asked for more money - saved it all for college... that was tough some days, lots of Goodwill clothes and spaghetti and sold a Porsche - but I made a promise to myself and my kids, I knew he wouldn't be able to help with college, so I made it work.

He is still a good man, great dad, he just isn't my best guy anymore.

It was a journey I never saw myself taking, but, everyone is happier, I would have been miserable living in a one-sided relationship, it was a rough road to begin with, but when it smoothed out, it had some pretty good sections.

Good for you Foxy. I wish all people were so honorable.

[tevake]

We'll done Foxy!

P O P, brother, its totally painful hearing the mindset you are living in. Sounds like you went thru hell. But even worse, like you are still living there.
Maybe you need a little help in moving on from it all. I feel for ya! It's not easy to let go of the feelings from a rough time like that.

But even worse to keep living in them long term.

I'm not saying there is no truth in what you are saying. Just that it's no way to live, being stuck in that truth.

There are good woman, no great woman out there to interact with, but with the sour view you share here, there is little chance of getting to enjoy about half of the people in your world.
You have the treasure of life ahead of you. Don't let the cloud of a challenging time darken the rest of your life.

Shared with the best of intentions

Hang in there Lee, sounds like you all are going to make the best of a difficult situation.

Cheers Richard

[NY65912]

Best of luck to you Lee.

[jhynesrockmtn]

You're a smart guy. Don't be stupid about this - get a lawyer. Now. I can guarantee she has one or very shortly will. If she says she doesn't, don't believe her. She does. As of this moment you cannot trust a single word she ever says to you ever again. She is lying to you, she has been lying to you and she will continue to lie to you as long as you're dumb enough to let yourself be put at a disadvantage and exploited by it. She no longer cares about what happens to you, I've got news for ya'. "De Nial" ain't just a river in Egypt, my man. You need a guide. Get one. Please.

Sorry for your pain but you are one bitter person who is very confident your situation plays out over and over again no matter the individuals involved. It seems like the OP knows his wife pretty well and is a smart guy. There are plenty of lawyers trained in mediated divorces, mine was handled by one. They can protect someone if things go south and will suggest each person has their own attorney but they are trained to manage the situation so that it can have an amicable and fair outcome. Not all women are conniving lying pieces of crap. Sorry you married one.

[bivenator]

POP suggestion to lawyer up may seem distasteful at this stage of the negotiations. I have to second his recommendation though as it will be helpful in many ways. Knowledge is your friend and when sitting with the mediator it will help to have a general idea of what the law says.

During my custody battle we sought out a mediator. I found that the mediator that we saw was more interested in a resolution than a fair resolution. I walked out of the mediation.

I can't recall if your kids are under 18 and if they are then advice from a lawyer is even more important.

Best of luck.

[peppy]

Sorry to read this. Keep your chin up and take care of yourself.

[KNS]

I would probably follow POPs suggestion at getting a lawyer but not all women are out to screw their ex.

When my wife divorced her ex (I'm her second husband but its the first marriage for me), they pretty much went their separate ways but had to figure out splitting child visitation, etc. She kept the house (since sold) and he pays a monthly child support payment (which hasn't been upped in years).

At the time of the divorce they made roughly equal pay so no alimony or spousal support. In the years before their marriage she paid off all his debt and helped him pay for his school. He had been cheating on her for years before and during their marriage - she could have been nasty but left his (handsome) fire fighter's retirement alone. She just wanted to wash her hands and be done with him.

Not every woman out there is on a vendetta but my wife certainly could have chosen to do so.

[larrydickman]

I understand POP's recommendation to consult an attorney, but I think his "doom and gloom" is a bit over the top. As others have mentioned everyone's situation is different, some of you have really been through a roller coaster ride. I liked getting FP's perspective, she's a smart woman who can keep a level head in a tough, personal situation. It's easy to let anger and animosity rule and that's when the legal bills start climbing higher.

As Craig T mentioned it is like ripping off a band aid. Hurts now but you are much better in the long run if the love is lost in the relationship. Everyone suffers. I asked my lawyer initially if it was true that divorce is running at 60%. He said definitely "yes", but where I live (upper mid class, soccer moms in yoga pants running around town all day in their SUV's while pops is banging the Secretary at work) runs close to 80%.

You see long term relationships (some 40+ years) ending in divorce today. High profile celebs (Neil Young, Graham Nash, Cpt and Tennile, Al Gore, etc). I think when you're 50 and in a bad relationship you realize you have 25-40 years left, do you want to spend it miserable and angry or pull the ripcord and bail to have a chance at a happy life.

My life satisfaction and happiness have increased tenfold since the separation. It was at the point where I didn't even want to go home after work. I was alienated from family (they were all a holes in her eyes), same with friends. Believe me, it's no way to live.

[Oracle]

For me what started amicably it turned south quick when money and splitting assets were on the table..

After a lot of duct tape on my mouth, we calmly talked and talked...

In summary:
She "let me go" with my retirement savings and other stuff that she would've been entitled as well.

So not everyone else is out there on a vendetta but you have to have the right woman to do that.

Don't use a lawyer cause she's going to be all pissed off and the lawyer will get your money in fees.

The best and cheapest divorce is when you and your ex work together.


You don't have to be her friend, just remain friendly and accept that you will loose money and your life will change - like it or not..

[sand_man]

In my situation, she was a stay at home mom for many years. It was never my intention to leave her flat or force the kids out of the only house they ever knew. That's what was important to me and those were the goals I instructed my lawyer to remember. After I moved out, I continued to make all household related payments (the mortgage, taxes, insurance, utilities, etc) until the divorce was final. It was a few years later once it was all said and done.

I agreed to let her have the house and any equity in it, obviously this meant she would need her own financing to take it over. In the end, she decided the house was too much for her to maintain and decided to sell. She moved into a new townhouse with the proceeds. I paid off her car and gave her the title. I kept all of the joint credit card debt, which has now been paid off.

In short, I was doing my best to avoid unnecessary bitterness and strife, which ultimately would have been felt by the kids. I currently pay alimony and child support. To some, I took it on the chin, but I never had to go to court and fight for custody. We also maintain a very flexible visitation schedule. I like to think, I've given her the means to stay on her feet without having to work 80 hours in some menial job, which would keep her away from the kids, in order to make ends meet. I wasn't about to fight over "stuff"...I left it all behind.

[rusnak]

Lee, you're a good dude.

Laywers are needed when people don't have enough common sense to handle their own business as a responsible adult. There is nothing magical about a lawyer. They are just hired to be your knee capper if that's where things head.

[McLovin]

Hang in there!

I think you'll have fairly smooth sailing. What seems to make it very difficult in most cases are (1) substantial assets, including current and future income, and (2) children.

For (2), it sounds like you have one 16 year old daughter? If so, that's fortunate. First, I don't think there is much in the way of custody battles for 16 year olds. They are old enough to have a lot of input in the system, and they can drive themselves where they need to go, and are generally beginning to be independent. She's probably 18 months or so away from being an adult.

For (1) it sounds like your wife makes at least as much or more than you, and there aren't a lot of complicated assets (rental properties, ownership in companies, etc.). My guess is she's not going to expect future support from you.

Anyways, good luck. You already sound like you're doing better!

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by KNS

I would probably follow POPs suggestion at getting a lawyer but not all women are out to screw their ex.

When my wife divorced her ex (I'm her second husband but its the first marriage for me), they pretty much went their separate ways but had to figure out splitting child visitation, etc. She kept the house (since sold) and he pays a monthly child support payment (which hasn't been upped in years).

At the time of the divorce they made roughly equal pay so no alimony or spousal support. In the years before their marriage she paid off all his debt and helped him pay for his school. He had been cheating on her for years before and during their marriage - she could have been nasty but left his (handsome) fire fighter's retirement alone. She just wanted to wash her hands and be done with him.

Not every woman out there is on a vendetta but my wife certainly could have chosen to do so.

You already know this but your wife is a class act & she saved herself a lot of emotional energy by "washing her hands of him".

That's the key right there. Process what happen, do the things that need to be done and then MOVE ON.

[larrydickman]

Originally Posted by peteremsley

Our day in court was weird. We had to wait for a few other cases before ours with lots of shouting and arguing.....

When I went for my first progress hearing, they had all of the Spanish speaking cases go first so that the interpreters could move on from Family Law to other courtrooms.

Every single case, either one or both of the parties had a restraining order against each other. This one poor guy was all of 5'2" tall and weighed 110 lbs soaking wet. His ex was a big ol' "Chola" pushing about 300lbs. They were supposed to attend counseling sessions for the kids but he said he couldn't because he "feared for his life" as she had given him a few poundings throughout the marriage.

Family Court can be pretty entertaining.