My '77 convertible...

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Since you have the gauge, you might as well measure the following:

• Cold control pressure.
• Warm control pressure without vacuum.
• Warm control pressure with vacuum.

This is how to do this simple test. Install the CIS gauge between FD and WUR (valve closer toward WUR). Disconnect the plug to WUR and test run the FP. With the valve open, you are measuring CCP (cold control pressure). Record the pressure reading. Next step is to plug the connector back to WUR. As soon as you connect the plug back to the WUR with the FP running, the WUR will begin to heat up and the control pressure will gradually increase until it stabilized. This is now your WCP (warm control pressure). It is also helpful to record the transition time from CCP to WCP. A 1-min. interval up to the time WCP maxed out (4~5 mins.).

If you are just running the FP (engine off), you will get the WCP without vacuum. To measure WCP with vacuum, use a vacuum pump and apply 5” Hg. Keep us posted.

Tony

The vacuum pump will be the only head scratcher, but I’ll poke around and see what I can do.

When you say to plug the connector to the WUR, you’re talking about the valve next to the gauge, right?

Is there anything I can do to clean the WUR while it’s out right now? I won’t be back near the car for another day or three.

[john walker's workshop]

I worked on it a few times, minor stuff. Yeah, he was proud if it. The black cherry paint was the giveaway. Haven't seen him in years. Maybe parked due to the current issue.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by ZeroHecksGiven

The vacuum pump will be the only head scratcher, but I’ll poke around and see what I can do.

When you say to plug the connector to the WUR, you’re talking about the valve next to the gauge, right?

Is there anything I can do to clean the WUR while it’s out right now? I won’t be back near the car for another day or three.

NO. WUR has a gray electrical plug or connector that supplies power to the WUR when the FP is running. You can pull it out or disconnect it to prevent the WUR heater from heating up when measuring for cold control pressure. For measuring WCP, you need the electrical plug connected to the WUR to heat up the heater.

Hope I explain it well for you to understand. No valve involve.

Tony

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

I worked on it a few times, minor stuff. Yeah, he was proud if it. The black cherry paint was the giveaway. Haven't seen him in years. Maybe parked due to the current issue.

Yeah, his mechanical knowledge was lacking, but more or less parked it, then it wouldn't start, so it sat longer, then he got a battery and it was clicking, then it sat some more and I think we ended up 2-3 years later, where we are now, lol. Though, curious if there was something else going on that caused him to park it initially. We shall see. I promised to get in touch once the car was running and go for a drive around lake washington with him, top down of course

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

NO. WUR has a gray electrical plug or connector that supplies power to the WUR when the FP is running. You can pull it out or disconnect it to prevent the WUR heater from heating up when measuring for cold control pressure. For measuring WCP, you need the electrical plug connected to the WUR to heat up the heater.

Hope I explain it well for you to understand. No valve involve.

Tony

Ahhhhh, got it! I was getting mixed up with a video I watched and they were using a valve on the gauge to block off the WUR for whatever reason. I'll dig into this as soon as I can and get back to ya. I appreciate the help and your clarity on this stuff

[ZeroHecksGiven]

CCP - 70psi
WCP - 75psi (took 2ish minutes to max out here)

I dont have a way to add vacuum currently. Will work on that.
Going to reread the link above again for trouble shooting to see if I’m missing something…

[PeteKz]

I don't think you checked the CCP correctly. It should be much lower than 70psi, more like 25-ish psi. You need the CIS gauge and valve setup to check the SP and the CCP and WCP.

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

I don't think you checked the CCP correctly. It should be much lower than 70psi, more like 25-ish psi. You need the CIS gauge and valve setup to check the SP and the CCP and WCP.

I had one end of the gauge going into the center of the FD and the other end going into the WUR, the line closer to the firewall. Unplugged electrical line going to WUR. Turn key and FP starts doing it’s thing. It slowly climbed up to 70PSI.

Here is a picture from when everything was turned off and it was losing pressure over a few minutes…

[PeteKz]

Looks like the right setup, but you wrote something that got my attention. You said the other end of the gauge setup goes to the line closest to the firewall. That is usually the return to the tank, not the CP line. The correct connection should be the one on top of the WUR closest to the back of the car. That line goes down on top of the WUR, whereas the return line comes off at a right angle from a banjo bolt and points forward towards the firewall. Possible someone confused these in the past ad screwed them in backwards? Even so, I would expect the CCP to be much lower, and the WCP to be in the upper 40's.

What is your WUR part number?

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Looks like the right setup, but you wrote something that got my attention. You said the other end f the huge setup goes to the line closest to the firewall. That is usually the return to the tank, not the CP line. The correct connection should be the one on top of the WUR closest to the back of the car. That line goes down on top of the WUR, whereas the return line comes off at a right angle from a banjo bolt and points forward towards the firewall. Possible someone confused these in the past ad screwed them in backwards? Even so, I would expect the CCP to be much lower, and the WCP to be in the upper 40's.

What is your WUR part number?

Oooooooohhhhh, okay. If I’m at the back of the car working on it, I used the line away from me. I basically took the line off from the FD and placed in the gauge in its place. The line closest to me goes towards the front of the car. If what I’m saying is incorrect, then that’s definitely a problem it seems 🤦🏼*♂️🤦🏼*♂️🤦🏼*♂️

The WUR is a 033 I believe. Attaching some photos now.

[PeteKz]

It looks to me like the whole WUR is turned 180 degrees. If so, then the connections are correct, but turned around with the WUR. The brass nipple sticking out one end of the 033 WUR should point to the left where you can see the hose that connects to it. The nipple should not be under the intake runners. I don't think that will make a difference in how it runs, but at least it will be oriented like everyone else's.

[Terrance Sig]

Very cool

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

It looks to me like the whole WUR is turned 180 degrees. If so, then the connections are correct, but turned around with the WUR. The brass nipple sticking out one end of the 033 WUR should point to the left where you can see the hose that connects to it. The nipple should not be under the intake runners. I don't think that will make a difference in how it runs, but at least it will be oriented like everyone else's.

It was definitely going under the intake runners. I’ll get that fixed up. The CCP puzzles me. I’ll try to research that a little and see what’s going on. I’ll also work on some better pictures of what I have going on.

Thank you for your time responding Hopefully we’ll stumble upon the missing link here soon.

[PeteKz]

Have you driven it yet? With the CCP being about the same as the WCP, which is also too high, it probably starts hard and you have to feather the gas to keep it running cold. No? But it may run okay when fully warm. At any rate, driving it will tell you more about what you need to do.

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Have you driven it yet? With the CCP being about the same as the WCP, which is also too high, it probably starts hard and you have to feather the gas to keep it running cold. No? But it may run okay when fully warm. At any rate, driving it will tell you more about what you need to do.

We’re not able to keep it running. If we lift the air plate prior to startup, it will run off the fuel that we dumped into the system and then it dies. Can’t seem to figure out why fuel stops spraying once it’s cranking….

[PeteKz]

Probably too lean, due to several factors, including too high CCP. However, as a temporary work around, you can try to increase the richness of the CO screw 1/8-1/4 turn and see if that will get it running.

Is the switch in the air metering unit not allowing the fuel pump to run? Just checking.

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Probably too lean, due to several factors, including too high CCP. However, as a temporary work around, you can try to increase the richness of the CO screw 1/8-1/4 turn and see if that will get it running.

Is the switch in the air metering unit not allowing the fuel pump to run? Just checking.

When I turn the key and “prime” the system by lifting the air plate, fuel does spray out. There is also a super quick squirt of fuel sprayed when key is turned to start. Fuel pump is running strong.

[PeteKz]

Here's something else I try when it won't keep running: get an assistant to start the engine, and squirt starting fluid or gasoline into the intake to keep it running. If you can manually feed fuel and keep it running, then we know it's too lean. Then we work on getting correct mixture. Try the suggestion of enriching the CO screw too (clockwise enriches).

Have you set the initial static CO screw adjustment to 1/2 turn CCW from when the injectors start squirting? If so, try 1/4 turn.

[ZeroHecksGiven]

https://youtube.com/shorts/7MOv4qPCkTI?feature=share

Welp, that’s progress. Turned the screw 1/2 turn cw and it was popping a little. Went another 1/4 turn and this is what we got. Buttoning things back up a little and will give it another go. We did start it once without priming and it mostly started right up

[PeteKz]

Good to hear it running. Now drive it.

I'm wondering if your CO screw was way off? The basic setup should be 1/2 turn CCW from the point where the injectors start to squirt. If the car does not run at that setting, then something else is off, like the cold and warm control pressures.

Get an exhaust gas analyzer or AFR gauge and figure out your CO%. The spec varies over the years, but somewhere in the 2%-3% range should get you in the ballpark.

[ZeroHecksGiven]

Thanks Pete!

Not sure how far out it was and not sure if we're in the right spot now or not.

Couple things.

1) I did the n00b mistake of overfilling the oil. We were letting it idle (high) for a good minute or two and when we killed it, we could hear the oil basically boiling on the left side heat exchanger. I drained the amount of oil I added and I think it's good now, except that now there is excess oil in that heat exchanger and it's smoking and smelly and kinda scary.

2) It's idling high. We will need to start over with that CO screw and dial that in a little bit (thank you for the tips about the injectors squirting). We had adjusted it in the very first day or two of messing with this thing. So it's likely that was an issue for sure. But it's also idling around 2K. We got it close to timed, but once it would settle in on the mark, the idle would surge a little and I was kinda chasing it around. Got it where I think it should be, but also understand that will need to be looked at again.



So right now, feeling on the moon. Obviously, some things to address and dial in here, but it's progress and I'm pretty pumped.