Triumph ITB - AEM Infinity Project

[slow&rusty]

Absolutely amazing and inspiring. The great pictures and your descriptions makes for an awesome thread.

Hopefully we meet-up soon.

Curious..which 3D printer did you use?

[JoshCole1122]

Amazing job and engineering on this.

What are the advantages with itb?


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[Mick_D]

1. They look so cool.
2. They sound so coool!
3. They improve throttle response.
4. They're just so coooool!

[Clay.0]

Originally Posted by Ferrino

Wonderful stuff - I especially like your photography. Regarding the Audi COPs - I picked up a used one just to see how it would sit against the holes in the valve covers and mine was just loose in there - really didn't like that. I guess you could put some sort of spacer ring in there. Do the shorter ones actually rest against the covers?

Thanks! The COPs that Rasant sells are the shorter 2.0T coils that I plan to buy. They fit the holes well and help keep the cooling air from escaping through the hole. They do sit closer to the valve cover.

Originally Posted by Tippy

Beautiful install!! I'm in your town as we speak.

Thanks! Were you in town last weekend for Treffen?

Originally Posted by Mick_D

That's pretty sweet, CLay. One day I'll want to do something very similar. Those Triumph ITBS look great!

Thank you!

Originally Posted by JohnJL

Kudos, nice adventurism, creativity, documentation and bravery. Keep it coming.

Originally Posted by Tippy

What crimper are you using? Are they double-crimp?

For the wiring? I'm using these Wire CrimpersDetails | Painless Performance

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

Absolutely amazing and inspiring. The great pictures and your descriptions makes for an awesome thread.

Hopefully we meet-up soon.

Curious..which 3D printer did you use?

I'm definitely going to bring the car out more now, so we will likely meet up soon. A friend was helping me with the 3D printing, i'm not sure what model it was.

Originally Posted by JoshCole1122

Amazing job and engineering on this.

What are the advantages with itb?

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Thanks! Here is an article that explains the advantages of ITBs

https://mag.levelxms.com/2014/08/01/benefits-of-individual-throttle-bodies/

But as Mick_D noted, they're cool!

Here are a few more pictures of the whole setup













And here is a video of the "first start". This is before the ITBs were balanced and idle set

https://youtu.be/CMFJ9AJPE_U

And another once everything was adjusted

https://youtu.be/nL2u4UGRrN4

Andrew from Rasant Products was a huge help getting it the AEM Infinity setup and tuned. I highly recommend his EFI kit.

Al Kosmal has been a huge inspiration as well with the Triumph ITBs and his linkage and throttle body kit are a great affordable option.

[Mick_D]

Clay, where'd you source the ITBS? Guess I better go back and re-read.

[Tippy]

I didn't attend.

Thanks for the crimper link!

[slow&rusty]

Bravo Clay!!!

Disappointed I missed Treffen, I was invited by Rudy and unfortunately had other commitments that day.

[sithot]

When somebody steps up with a system like this for our cars, EFI setups will become more popular. The hot rod V8 guys are always ahead of the curve.
Prices will come down and the labor to install one will as well.

I'm a patient man having learned that pioneers are the ones with arrows in their backs.


SEMA 2016: Holley Takes The Wraps Off Of Self Tuning Fuel Injection

[DeRRis]

I got my manifolds from Clay the other day. They are very nice irl!



Now I'm collecting all the parts and I hope to start this build in early spring.

[Clay.0]

I had a question regarding my fuse/relay setup, here is a little more info.

I wired the relay's opposite what the Bussmann DIY noted, with the relays installed right side up. This means that i'm switching using a ground signal, rather than a power signal.

DIY Bussmann RTMR Fuse Block, Part 4 – Wiring and Schematics | Bodenzord

This is the back of my setup.



The two terminals on the bottom are bridged together and connected to the battery. This provides power to both the fuses and relays (86)

The other fuse terminal or "out" is connected to the relay power terminal (30)

The 87 terminal provides power to the accessories; ECU, fuel pump, injectors and coils.

The 85 is wired to C1-47 of the AEM Infinity 6 ECU. This is the ECU ground switch. The ECU provides a ground to the relay and is the switch. This is used for all accessories, ECU power, coils and injectors.

The 85 for the fuel pump is C1-41 of the AEM Infinity 6 ECU. The ECU provides a ground to the relay and is the switch to turn on the fuel pump.

This is just what I did. It is not the only way to do it, or the best way. The best way is to buy Rasant's kit with the wiring done. I did not save any money doing it myself, I just choose to because I wanted to learn the system and understand the wiring better for myself.

[Pehlen]

I've read elsewhere that the vacuum lines should be equal length. From the pictures, I think I see that yours are not. Is there an appreciable impact with the MAP sensor to make them equal length, or not?

BTW, this is one of the threads that inspired me to do similar.

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by Pehlen

I've read elsewhere that the vacuum lines should be equal length. From the pictures, I think I see that yours are not. Is there an appreciable impact with the MAP sensor to make them equal length, or not?

BTW, this is one of the threads that inspired me to do similar.

MegaSquirt states air travels really fast, that it takes like almost a 100ft of vacuum line before latency is exhibited.

Meaning, equal lengths probably aren't 100% required, but I'd strive for it.

[jpnovak]

Originally Posted by Pehlen

I've read elsewhere that the vacuum lines should be equal length. From the pictures, I think I see that yours are not. Is there an appreciable impact with the MAP sensor to make them equal length, or not?

BTW, this is one of the threads that inspired me to do similar.

No impact whatsoever. Besides, all the vacuum lines are effectively combined in the manifold. Only one signal to the ECU/MAP sensor.

The only issue with ITBs is getting a quiet MAP signal at idle. The reversion pulses can easily be seen by the sensor at low intake gas speeds. Yes, these are the same reversion pulses that confuse the AFM in Motronic and Flapper in CIS. The difference is that you can ignore some of the noise and fluctuations in software and tuning.

This is a great build. I would like to know more about where you had the manifolds cast and that process.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by Tippy

MegaSquirt states air travels really fast, that it takes like almost a 100ft of vacuum line before latency is exhibited.

Meaning, equal lengths probably aren't 100% required, but I'd strive for it.

about 768 mph or Mach 1.

[Clay.0]

I hadn't thought about the length of the vacuum lines affecting the map signal, but i'm not too worried about it. I'm getting a good responsive signal with this setup.

One issue I did experience was during WOT tuning. Several of the screens on top of the velocity stacks got sucked into the stacks. Luckily they were all stopped by the ITB butterfly.



I ran them for awhile without any filters, but I wasn't too comfortable with that setup for obvious reasons. I looked into filter socks, but read reports of issues of limited airflow with them.

I settled on adapting a PMO Weber K&N filter and rain hat setup that I ordered from Pelican.

The adapters started with more Triumph parts. These are intake boots that come on several Triumph motorcycles and a set of 3 can be had for about $15. These come with a round rubber coupler and clamp on one side, a bolted flange with o-ring on the other side.





The coupler and clamp side fit on top of the ITBs, and I designed an adapter plate that was waterjet cut that the bolt flange side attaches to.



The plate is 3/8" thick to allow for clearance above the fuel rail



I previously had the FPR mounted directly to the fuel rail, but the new filter setup interfered, so I added a straight union to space it out. This is a better connection anyway.

[Clay.0]

Next up was modifying the PMO filter base plate. Holes for the intake boots and velocity stacks were added by drilling through the holes in the plates





The Weber and Triumph spacing is off a bit, but it's close. The PMO base plate needed to be ground open a little with a Dremel.









I designed the adapter plate off a old set of rain hats, apparently they used to use socket cap fasteners for the spacer rods, now they use button heads that are too big. So I swapped these out for button heads

[Clay.0]

Then assembly of the unit.

The heads of the hardware is on the top side so there's no chance of a loose nut making it's way into the ITB.







I used standard Weber/EMPI velocity stacks





Standard K&N filter

[Clay.0]

Installation:

The way I had Al's linkage setup before was raising up to high and hit the adapter plate.

Everything was shortened down and adjusted to swing lower. This ended up allowing the movement of the linkage to be much smoother than before.

ITB linkage starting parallel to the throttle body





The aluminum pull linkage was also shortened





Now at WOT the linkage barely touches the filter setup



The assembly is connected to the ITBs with the allen hose clamps that come with the intake boots

[Clay.0]

I messed with the adapter plates a little more

Using a 3/8" round over bit in my router, I opened up the ovals of the plate to better align with the velocity stacks





Huge mess but they turned out decent



Down the velocity stack



Once that chore was done, I assembled them for the last time with some RTV between the plate and the bottom of the rain hat. Then installed them on the car.





I still need to re-sync all the ITBs since I adjusted the linkage, then i'll install the top hat nuts. For now it's loose to protect the intakes.

[slow&rusty]

You do some amazing work!
Inspiring.