Full RS Backdate Step-by-Step Thread

[safe]

Originally Posted by AdamKaz

haha yeah, we'll see how that budget survives!

A couple weeks into the build, and I've already blown 20% of it!

The devil, as usual, is in the details. For example SC/Carrera rear fenders are not like the were on the RS. Most backdates ignore that fact.

It depends on how picky you are with authenticity and quality. But even if you compromise both $10k won't take you half way.

[redturbo911]

Pictures???

[Eli W]

I'm with Tips as well. An SC is a great car, get your car fixed up and in good shape with upgrades and the 10k will go fast as it did for my car.

Having owned a 1969 911 E I don't get the whole backdating fad either. And a nice SC is great thing to have.

[Craig_D]

An SC is a great car, but he's got an '88 Carrera (link to article). He had come to the conclusion that only three years, the G50 Carreras '87 - '89, are "the best" for backdating.

I don't know that I agree, and would even submit that a proper RS clone should be running a 915 transmission, and SC's would have been less expensive to start with.

"The second 911 in Florida was much more abused with a cracked period body kit and an utterly destroyed interior. It was also far cheaper at $22.5K advertised. After talking to both sellers, my wallet won out and I opted for the ugly tree Florida car. A bit of haggling and negotiations later, we agreed on $21k.."

I'm shocked that he spent $21k on a basket case with a ruined interior that, once received, didn't even run well.

Here's a beautiful low mileage '82 SC for sale on Pelican Classifieds for $27k: HERE

Or a beautiful Euro spec SC for $23k running well with a nice interior (both cars interiors could have been sold for cash going forward): HERE

It seems to me, that a basket case Carrera could have been had for much less money, which leads me to believe this wasn't very well spec'd/researched from the very beginning.

The article itself is targeting non-Porsche people, but here on Pelican, it's one of the deepest pools of Porsche expertise on this planet and one would expect a deeper understanding of this project before promoting it.

As I said earlier, I hope that I'm missing something here, and that there is a much deeper understanding of the project, or this is more likely similar to an article I read in one of my European Porsche 911 magazines where they highlighted two "RS clones" that were done on the very cheap, with body kits that didn't require proper fenders, front end grafts, and were meant to be light hearted mods that "mimicked" RS's more than tried to be proper clones.

[Eli W]

Yeah I saw that Euro SC, after a ppi I would buy that car and hang on to it, that is a fantastic car. The Euro is a screaming deal, and a better car than I definitely bought. And the Euro SC has will only go up in price in the future. Every dime put into it would come out of it.

Missed that part about it being an 87 Carrera, I would only back date one of those if I won the lottery and was bored out of my mind.

One thing I have learned while being on here for awhile is there are some insanely talented guys on here who do amazing stuff. They make stuff look easy, and most times it is not. Since I have only been around Porsches for maybe 4 years, I do no even dream of trying to do a back date.

A mid year roller would have been a better starting point especially a galvanized one. Building a real clone is constructing a new car. After all, it takes is to completely change the suspension, motor, interior and body get all that done and you are done. Cut one corner and it won't be right.

[Tremelune]

I strongly suggest you enjoy the car for what it is, keeping it drivable for as long as possible, getting the mechanicals sorted, before pulling the thing apart. I also wouldn't change anything but body bits and maybe some interior on that car. It's lovely as-is. Worst case, we're all ready and waiting to buy your car if the project takes a bad turn, and the stock parts if it doesn't.

I myself am on the precipice of such a backdate in no small part because my car already has a lot of aftermarket bodywork that I don't love. I have no plans to change anything but the bumpers, hood, decklid, and add some bits to the fenders. I would try not to cut any metal on one of these cars, unless it bolts on and you have an extra one lying around.

To that end, reversible, bolt-on backdate that looks fantastic:

Light weight image change - Body Overhaul Projects - Impact Bumpers

I dunno why anyone would bother with originality when backdating a car. It will never be authentic or original. It's an hommage, not a counterfeit. If it looks good, it looks good.

But of course...there are enthusiasts for all manner of pristine and ratty classics. Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the build. $1,000 hood emblems. Christ.

[Josh D]

Backdate it to a '74 Carrera. A lot cheaper and easier. Just as good looking as well IMHO.

[Eli W]

Bolt on back dating is the way to go. I'm almost done with my 911 S tribute to a 911 S mid year.
It has a duck tail and a hot rod engine, it is what it is.

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by Eli W

Missed that part about it being an 87 Carrera...

It's not. It's an '88.

[AdamKaz]

Glad to see I've started another internet fight...

A couple of points to clear up:
1) While this is my first Porsche, this is not my first rodeo. I've built custom motorcycles and a vintage BMW. I'm not getting into anything I'm not prepared for - either financially or emotionally.

2) I intend to do absolutely every portion of this I can on my own. Other than paint and expert bodywork, I do these projects to learn and to have fun. Doing this all myself is my hobby - thus major $ savings.

3) This is neither a frame-off restoration nor a race car. This is going to be a daily/weekly pleasure driver with light canyon carving. I don't need titanium bushing pushrod turbo linkages with sparkles nor will I be kept awake at night if my flares are .5inches bigger than a real RS.

Hopefully that clears us a lot of the different questions/suggestions. I definitely should have been more clear in my post. Apologies.

Thank you all for all the support and private messages I've received. This is why I love the Pelican community so much!

Stay tuned for an update soon...

[Bleedsblue]

Originally Posted by Craig_D

It's not. It's an '88.

Did I see your car at the Lafayette C&C a couple months ago? November?

[Craig_D]

Originally Posted by Bleedsblue

Did I see your car at the Lafayette C&C a couple months ago? November?

Yep, I was there!

[Bleedsblue]

Originally Posted by Craig_D

Yep, I was there!

Well, darn. I loved your car and am seriously bummed to know it would take at least $15k to transform my black 3.2 into yours

Sorry, back on topic.

[megerian]

Adam - looking forward to seeing the progress, good luck

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by AdamKaz

Glad to see I've started another internet fight...

A couple of points to clear up:
1) While this is my first Porsche, this is not my first rodeo. I've built custom motorcycles and a vintage BMW. I'm not getting into anything I'm not prepared for - either financially or emotionally.

2) I intend to do absolutely every portion of this I can on my own. Other than paint and expert bodywork, I do these projects to learn and to have fun. Doing this all myself is my hobby - thus major $ savings.

3) This is neither a frame-off restoration nor a race car. This is going to be a daily/weekly pleasure driver with light canyon carving. I don't need titanium bushing pushrod turbo linkages with sparkles nor will I be kept awake at night if my flares are .5inches bigger than a real RS.

Hopefully that clears us a lot of the different questions/suggestions. I definitely should have been more clear in my post. Apologies.

Thank you all for all the support and private messages I've received. This is why I love the Pelican community so much!

Stay tuned for an update soon...

Certainly not questioning your skills or motivation, but parts costs will be beyond your guesstimate budget, even if some parts are bought used and you sell take off parts to contribute to the budget. $10k could probably get you the asthetics you want, or the driveline/suspension refresh, but not both. It's just the economics with these cars. It still boggles my mind what people ask for used parts off these cars. Good luck, I look forward to seeing the progress!

[Jesse16]

Good luck also, I'm in the midst of a "mid-level" in my opinion paint job for my driver/track car and that would easily eat a great deal of your planned budget. Of course I'm paying someone else to fill, sand, paint, etc. Lots of hours and I don't require concourse as mine will hit the road and bugs hard. I did most all the dis-assembly myself. I'd guess 15k will get you there if you don't succumb to upgrade full bling/upgrade fever. Sounds like you have more experience and sense than those of us doing this one time only. We can be suckers. I'm doing a ducktail on my 87 also, no long hood upgrade though or f'glass, I want to maintain the crash protection. Bought my 87 seven years ago for 15K right before the price jump. High mile but perfect condition toy.

[AdamKaz]

Jesse16 - great job on getting into the P car before the market took off. I stood around counting my too few pennies as prices climbed what seemed like every month. Hat tip to you sir!

The paint job is one of the few mysteries left to me. I.e - I don't understand the difference (and how to spot it) between a $500 Macco job and a $50,000 concourse job. To be clear, I'm not considering either, but I'd like to become better educated on the range and difference along this whole spectrum.

But for now, on to bolting on all my new suspension toys!

[Craig_D]

I'm still not sure why you're putting a new suspension on a car that will be torn apart and redone as a long hood, but this might help you.

I put most of my money and time into the suspension and brakes of my '78 SC, and I did it as inexpensively as I could, without compromising my build. I did a metric ton of research, and still had a tanker load of learning during the process. I built my own tools and used common sense mechanics during the project and also took a lot of pics. Check it out.

Here's my '78 SC Elephant Racing Suspension Build thread.

[timmy2]

Adam, spend a little time in the body and paint section of the forum. Also search for Freddy Henandez posts.
You will quickly learn the difference between a scratch and paint job, and a bare metal respray.
I worked in a bodyshop for a while to make money for college and the difference in skill between a sprayer and a true painter is like the difference between a butcher and a surgeon.

My $6500 '78 SC non runner with 82,000 miles when I bought it 3.5 years ago has easily absorbed $10K and it still needs paint! Of the $10k I would estimate only 1/3rd was essential, the rest was mods I chose to make and "while I am in there" stuff.

Good luck with your build and pay very close attention to every choice you make. It is very easy to get off track.
If you knew how to do body and paint you would save yourself a lot of $$$.

I recently had a quote of almost $7k to do my car.
I won't be spending that amount though, as when the time comes, I will likely do it myself.

[CCM911]

You will totally know a $500 job from an expensive job. The cheap job will have a bunch of overspray, and the paint will not have that nice even look.

And BTW, I am also not doubting your mechanical ability, but I think you are going to totally blow your budget once you start to amass the parts required to complete this project.

At the rate these car's prices are rising, I know that Stock is not sexy, but Stock returns your investment, while a "tribute" languishes at the low end of the market.

Have you considered putting this car back to stock, and then impressing folks with your financial acumen?

Originally Posted by AdamKaz

The paint job is one of the few mysteries left to me. I.e - I don't understand the difference (and how to spot it) between a $500 Macco job and a $50,000 concourse job. To be clear, I'm not considering either, but I'd like to become better educated on the range and difference along this whole spectrum.

But for now, on to bolting on all my new suspension toys!